Still No SYSEX? I MEAN WTF?

[nigel1]

this is absolutely ridiculous...honestly.

I break out my HW synths..slap a few in my rack...I can control all my page movement and patch selections..even access the hard drive on units using sysex data on the buttons/encoders of my SL in Nuendo/C5 and everything else under the sun. Load up Live 8 and proceed to just be pissed off for the rest of the day. What a crock of SH*t!!!

And I'm supposed to think of this as a seriously complete professional music production application? I mean I don't sit at home wanking off all day to online porn! I make my living using this supposedly professional tool and depend on it to provide me with all the necessary standardized inclusions to make records. ARGGGHHHH!!!

This is a ridiculously simple feature that should not be a freakin' request. Add to this none existent Eucon support and no ability of writing live midi cc information into a clip and this is beginning to be a real drag.

C'mon Abes...You want a professional and his peers to take the product serious then add seriously necessary sh*t!!!!

Going back to N4/N5 looks better each day.

jeez..

END OF RANT.

Dennis Ferrer
www.objektivity.com
www.myspace.com/dennisferrer

[timothyallan]

I'm actually glad it doesn't support sysex. Just another thing to slow it down and another layer of things that could go wrong. Live's never supported sysex. Maybe you should buy a DAW or program that does?

[leedsquietman]

It works both ways as the 2 previous responders have different needs. The OP has a DAW in Cubase/Nuendo which supports sysex. It really depends on workflow, but TA is correct in stating that as Live has NEVER supported sysex, that one should research their purchase before dropping the cash IMO.

Live doesn't support sysex, omf, any kind of timestamped files (i.e. broadcast wave or sdII), has no surround, no scoring etc - but although it has less overall functionality than most trad linear DAWS, what it does do, it does pretty awesomely.

Eucon support will probably arrive soon - Ableton are generally good at including popular controllers, they are sometimes just lagging a bit behind the big players. Sysex - can't see that happening in the next release. Recording live MIDI CC automation is something which will probably be available with Max4Live and possibly might be coming within a release or two.

I understand the OPs frustration, which is why many of us keep Cubase or Logic around etc, but while requesting features is fine, ranting about it doesn't really work. Ableton publish the specs of their releases, so the lack of these features should have been very apparent before ponying up the cash to buy Live.

[adhmzaiusz]

I used to be pissed about the lack of sysex too... then I went all analog so sysex is just as irrelevant to me as someone using all soft synths
who needs patch memory!!

[Pasha]

I agree with leedsquietman about 'research before buy' and I add try before buy as Ableton allows.
However, mainly for my own ignorance I would like to have a wider understanding of what one could do
with sysex. What I have discovered so far is that the two way communication between my BCF2K in Mackie Mode
and Live happens because of what it seems to be sysex strings.
I'm a guitarist so be nice with me, but I remember sysex to be useful in the analog world to transmit
whole patches and have more control on synths which do not expose their internal beauty to MIDI CC.
I own such a module, Roland JV1010. The best things are accessible only using sysex but this realy did not
prevent me from using it with Live. I have a librarian to map what I need and change what I need and
save it in user memory so that I recall what's needed. A fragmented workflow but it works.
Recently I am using it more and the only complaint is that I cannot associate a list of patch names
to program change in Live. What I do is that I have several clips with the name hardcoded so that
I can use them as lists. I create them as long as i need them...
So apart from my trivial understanding and use how sysex is used in the professional world?

- Best
- Pasha

[nigel1]

try before I buy? Know what i'm getting before i spend?

Ok..I've been in this biz for more than 15 years and trust me...what you buy today for a certain need turns into wow I wonder if I can do this since i've never had the need before.

And that is just what occurred. I never needed sysex until last week when i decided to dust off my Kurzweil k2500S rack and then decided that i'd love to control all the front panel parameters and button
pushes from my Novation Remote SL. It's a pain in the ass to get up and walk halfway across the room to the rack just to hit the disk button to load a sound in. So you program a few encoders and buttons on the Remote SL and Viola! you control the k2500s as if it was sitting right in front of your face. So the need was never there when I first purchased Live 8 and i was unconcerned with that feature. The thing is..now that I do find the need..I find out I can't do it. So in all honesty I don't think it's fair to judge and say I didn't do my due diligence when there wasn't a need for that feature up until the current date. Needs in our studios and workflow are constantly revolving and evolving. How come it's been thought of in other daws? I'm just saying...

Passin' off the blame as if it's somehow my fault is kinda ridiculous. In the end if this app is supposed to be taken seriously then it should provide ALL the necessary tools for a professional whether you feel the need to use them or not! This is what is classified as a professional app and not some pro-sumer crap. Those in the know..know that Live 8 is an incredible app but crap like this is what's so frustrating about it also and makes us turn to the competition.

As far as ranting...we all have the right to an opinion on a public forum as long as it is done respectfully and not maliciously. I am just putting it out publicly how frustrating things like this have become to some power users. Amongst the many other issues that other folk have with this app.

Dennis Ferrer

AND NO YOU CAN'T DO THIS WITH MIDI CC INFO!! For the smart asses who think they know it all....

btw pasha.. sysex is very useful as aforementioned for remotely controlling hardware synths. If you have assigned an external instrument in Live to your rack mounted JV and assigned respective sysex data to your midi controller's encoders, buttons and/or rotary knobs your jv basically becomes like a plug in. All accessed from the comfort of sitting in front of your controller and not getting up out of your seat. You can do all sorts of things ...edit your patches, change the outputs, assign different filters, change and access the envelopes...access and modify the disk/cd rom drive or sound cards..push front panel buttons..turn front panel knobs and other front panel input methods. Assigning Sysex allows you access to basically every thing you can do by using the front panel of the instrument in question. This is a Godsend when your rackmounts or keyboards are all the way on the other side of the room. Why stop your workflow to get up and walk across the room to simply press load disk? LMAO! In a way it's all up to the manufacturer's sysex implementation and whether they've allowed and assigned the corresponding sysex msg to whatever you are trying to control. Most people associate sysex with just patch dumps and editor/librarians. It is a convenient and useful feature if one has been enlightened to it's usage.

[hoffman2k]

Can we get proper CC support first please? What good is Sysex support if Live can't even make a MIDI file without turning a straight line into blocks.
And still no OSC? I mean WTF!

[nigel1]

Can we get proper CC support first please? What good is Sysex support if Live can't even make a MIDI file without turning a straight line into blocks.
And still no OSC? I mean WTF!

Ok...you've got me beat on that one. LOL!

so there we go....see? And I'm ranting?

I'll say it again...professional tools, professional implementation..for professionals please....I understand that some of us are in the minority but if the competition can do it..why can't Live?

oh and btw saying live NEVER supported sysex as an excuse is bullcrap. To put it bluntly most of us in the biz didn't take it seriously back then and NOW THAT WE WANT TO...that excuse just
won't cut it.

df

[hoffman2k]

Can we get proper CC support first please? What good is Sysex support if Live can't even make a MIDI file without turning a straight line into blocks.
And still no OSC? I mean WTF!

Ok...you've got me beat on that one. LOL!

so there we go....see? And I'm ranting?

I'll say it again...professional tools, professional implementation..for professionals please....

I think every other time you use the word professional on this forum, it cancels out the previous time.
What are we all? Idiots?
You want Sysex support for a synth you dusted off. We'd like unfiltered Sysex for advanced patch editors in M4L.
We can only wish. Insulting people isn't going to get you anywhere. If anything, it just goes to show that only the "professionals" forgot how to behave civilized.

[nigel1]

I'm actually glad it doesn't support sysex. Just another thing to slow it down and another layer of things that could go wrong. Live's never supported sysex. Maybe you should buy a DAW or program that does?

are you serious? Maybe you should do your due diligence before making a statement like that. No disrespect intended...but if every other "professional" daw implements this than why can't Live?
How much do you think the code for that would slow it down? Would you as a user even notice? Cmon....be realistic.

btw I have Nuendo 4 and C5..also had PT HD and Logic 8. I prefer Live 8 though
df

[nigel1]

Can we get proper CC support first please? What good is Sysex support if Live can't even make a MIDI file without turning a straight line into blocks.
And still no OSC? I mean WTF!

Ok...you've got me beat on that one. LOL!

so there we go....see? And I'm ranting?

I'll say it again...professional tools, professional implementation..for professionals please....

I think every other time you use the word professional on this forum, it cancels out the previous time.
What are we all? Idiots?
You want Sysex support for a synth you dusted off. We'd like unfiltered Sysex for advanced patch editors in M4L.
We can only wish. Insulting people isn't going to get you anywhere. If anything, it just goes to show that only the "professionals" forgot how to behave civilized.

huh? didn't you see i agreed with you as far as proper CC support? I didn't insult anyone and far less you. I was insulted at the top of the OP! Try before I buy...or I should've known?
So i'm confused by your post

Also does it really matter whether or not I dusted off an old synth or bought a new one? The issue still would remain the same no?

Also my use of professional is just that. Live in many circles is still not considered this. Ignorance still hangs around and yet i believe otherwise. Features such as the ones we are talking about are cemented
in the competitions. Why don't we have em? That's the end all and be all of my original post.

[hoffman2k]

huh? didn't you see i agreed with you as far as proper CC support? I didn't insult anyone and far less you. I was insulted at the top of the OP! Try before I buy...or I should've known?

You keep using the word professional as if anybody who doesn't agree is an amateur and that Live is a toy because "the biz" said so. Sorry if I took that the wrong way, but that is how you sound.

And yes, you should have known. There's a demo, there's a manual and there's this forum. All could have told you there isn't any sysex support. We barely got MIDI support. If you prefer Live over nuendo, then what good is turning Live into nuendo? If you gonna play the "X" gotta have this because "Y" has it too game, well consider the giant can of worms you're opening. Every software should be a clone of each other in the end?

I'd like sysex support too for patch dumps and such in M4L. To have automation lanes like with CC's is something that'll never happen though. Wetter you rant or not. Other software already does that. If Live did everything Nuendo did, Live wouldn't be Live but nuendo. And while that is no excuse for not including Sysex, its pointless to include sysex in an environment that can barely deal with CC's.

I'm with Timothy. Don't add half-arsed features to an already half-arsed MIDI editor. It'll only ruin whatever workable MIDI we still have left. Use Nuendo till Live 9 hits with perhaps a MIDI Editor that can make normal MIDI files.

[steffensen]

Ive solved this problem by using Sounddiver. Where i can control my synths perfectly, side by side with Live.

[Poster]

Ive solved this problem by using Sounddiver. Where i can control my synths perfectly, side by side with Live.

pro!

[hoffman2k]

Ive solved this problem by using Sounddiver. Where i can control my synths perfectly, side by side with Live.

pro!

Additionally we know how to hijack Sysex from the remote control surfaces API. Albeit with a 100ms refresh rate. http://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php? ... 40&start=0