MIDI sync weirdness

[maily]

like so many people me and my pals have been trying un-succesfully to sync 2 machines [1 macbook + 1 macbook pro both running ableton 8.1] using abletons sync feature.
it "works" but the tempo fluctuates so badly it make it totally un-useable.

right now for the weirdness, i'd borrowed my mates xone 4d for a few days
and thought "i'll try syncing ableton to the 4d" and ableton followed the tempo output by the mixer PERFECTLY down to 0.01bpm

the only difference between the two scenarios is that i'd instaled the midi/audio drivers required for the 4d.

allen and heath can make it work........

[3phase]

thats strange... what is allen and heath doing different than the other audio/midi interface manufactors?

have you checked it also with the new beta 8.13b? i had the impression that syncing with 8.13b went worse.. but with all the wobbeling its not possible to be sure about it.. on the allen and heath it gets maybe more visual?

[jamief]

i have my desktop synced to my laptop and it works really pretty great now.

[maily]

i have my desktop synced to my laptop and it works really pretty great now.

do tell then!
what's the secret?

[Ninja-Matic]

I've found MAD crazy drifts when going over standard MIDI input/output on hardware.

If you're running macbooks with 10.4 or later - just connect the two via ethernet or crossover cable (both werk - I use ethernet all the time, not crossover)

Go into your Audio/Midi setup in OSX

Create a new Session in NETWORK under the Midi window

Have the other Macbook create the same session name and then from the box below - just join the other computer's session.

Voila.

Now in Ableton - select ON for SYNC in the MIDI menu for that SESSION name you created earlier for the send/receive (relative to master/slave macbook).

Done.

You can even do this wirelessly from one mac to the next with their built-in airport cards. Just connect the same way to the MIDI network you created earlier.

NEVER a drift - just set your audio compensation in midi settings on the Slave - and you're good to go all night.

I have my partner's metronome ticking through a separate channel with no output in Ableton - mapping both my metronome and the track cue (headphones) - I get both metronomes on/off at the same time so I can check discrepancies every so often throughout our set.

Never an issue over a network but I've had nothing but pain when dealing with Midi cables.

[theque]

gonna check that one out

[maily]

I've found MAD crazy drifts when going over standard MIDI input/output on hardware.

If you're running macbooks with 10.4 or later - just connect the two via ethernet or crossover cable (both werk - I use ethernet all the time, not crossover)

Go into your Audio/Midi setup in OSX

Create a new Session in NETWORK under the Midi window

Have the other Macbook create the same session name and then from the box below - just join the other computer's session.

Voila.

Now in Ableton - select ON for SYNC in the MIDI menu for that SESSION name you created earlier for the send/receive (relative to master/slave macbook).

Done.

You can even do this wirelessly from one mac to the next with their built-in airport cards. Just connect the same way to the MIDI network you created earlier.

NEVER a drift - just set your audio compensation in midi settings on the Slave - and you're good to go all night.

I have my partner's metronome ticking through a separate channel with no output in Ableton - mapping both my metronome and the track cue (headphones) - I get both metronomes on/off at the same time so I can check discrepancies every so often throughout our set.

Never an issue over a network but I've had nothing but pain when dealing with Midi cables.

strange, we've had the drift problem over ethernet and over midi cable.

[3phase]

i have it unsatble with etherner aswell.actually much worse than hardware midi via rme midi ports...

maybe os related? i think i had that better in 10.4 and live 7...

but actualy hevent tried it with 10.63 and the newest live yet

[lunabass]

ninja, what os are your macbooks running? perhaps that has something to do with your success?

[mode:masters]

I think you'll find the midi interface determines how much "drift" you get. Some manufacturers pay close attention to this and include chips to try and prevent jitter. I've had varying degrees of success using different devices. I'm currently using a Focusrite Sapphire Pro 40 on my main machine and an Edirol UA-25 on the secondary and having very few issues. I do find if you send LOTS of midi messages at once it can cause lockups, but drift is not really an issue.

Perhaps we need to work out which interfaces play nice and which don't?

[3phase]

Perhaps we need to work out which interfaces play nice and which don't?

Thats defently part of the game.. the inbuild midi ports of my rme fireface are pretty good..


but.. its also the algorythm of the software..in our case live.. that can be improoved..

On my system reaktor in standalone mode syncs perfectly the external clock... not jittering at all.. just solid...

It wasnt this good in the past..they have improoved it at one point without me having realized that..

However this shows that its possible to achive perfect clocksyncing on modern computer systems..at least on mac with good midi interfaces...


One easy to spot difference between the ableton and the native instruments algorythm...and maybe the only one...


The native instrument algo responds much slower to tempo changes..what is better and more musical..

It´s a tactical mistake to see a clock slave really as a slave that has to follow every little speed derivation as quick as possible...

That is not the reality how real musicans perform speedchanges..they follow the conductor..but they are not the conductors slaves...
Its totaly allwright when there is a lag to a tempi change..that sounds rather musical than wrong..

Just the oposite is the situation with all the quick tempo updates live is doing..
It follows like a slave any jitter in the system.. so its rather acurate to the errors of the system instead just holding the tempo...

Ableton should improove that as soon as possible because more and more people like to jam together theese days..

And dj sync gets a bit unpractical as soon more than 2 people play together... at least it takes extra time to manually sync the systems..

[chaosmoon]

damn. i'm fresh to Live and have been having a nightmarish time trying to keep a Korg ESX-1 in sync. MBP Penryn 2.4Ghz running 10.5.8, Live 8.1.1

Tried it with Motu express 128, Emagic MT-4 and Motu 828FW midi port with no success. Sloppy is the best description.

I guess its strictly ITB or OTB and not much in between for now. Pity, cause the ESX interface is damn good for jamming live.

[3phase]

damn. i'm fresh to Live and have been having a nightmarish time trying to keep a Korg ESX-1 in sync. MBP Penryn 2.4Ghz running 10.5.8, Live 8.1.1

Tried it with Motu express 128, Emagic MT-4 and Motu 828FW midi port with no success. Sloppy is the best description.

I guess its strictly ITB or OTB and not much in between for now. Pity, cause the ESX interface is damn good for jamming live.

that is strange.. at least with the ma book as master this should work perfectly... considering that you know the concept of offset delays...

have you tried with Live 7? havent used 8.13 yet.. but it still has issues.. to exclude the possebility of L8 bugs allways check the behaviour with the latest version of L7

[chaosmoon]

i wasn't familiar with the offset delays and have been using track delays to correct for buffer settings.

i just found the settings and noticed the song/pattern setting which appears to default to "song". I hope the Korg machines respond better to repetitive "start" messages.

My ER-1 also had the same drift making me suspect Ableton or the OS was at fault.

L7 is out of the question because i'm relying heavily on M4L for an alternative performance interface. Can i even install it with my current serial? Maybe to test the sync it would be worth trying.

[funky shit]

i hate when i lose my midi in the sink.