the Deeper side of DJ'ing with Ableton

Share your favorite Ableton Live tips, tricks, and techniques.
ryansupak
Posts: 429
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2004 7:23 pm

Post by ryansupak » Thu Mar 24, 2005 4:28 pm

back in 2002, i wrote the first "DJing with Live" tutorial for the Abletons. i've been tinkering with it ever since -- now that i travel all the time for my straight job i only get to actually play out about one a month though :(

my config is very similar to the way Sasha's is described. (i mostly play old psych and modal jazz 45's and LPs, slowed down, with tons of delay and reverb effects though, not much in the way techno or even "electronic music".) (if you want to become a warp expert, try warping some scratchy, garage-recorded funk 45s!)

here's my config, from the "back end" to the "front end". if anybody wants any config templates, shoot an email: it's my message board handle, at gmail.com.

*midi control*

two 49-key midi controllers, each with 20 pots. the key assignments remain static at all times, two octaves (24 keys) for each "program channel", of which there are four. of each two-octave group, keys 1-23 are velocity sensitive and trigger clips, and key 24 stops clips for that channel.

both controllers are wired to PD. on each unit, the pitch wheel acts as a knob to increment and decrement "control channel" -- basically they decide which channel the knobs on a unit are currenly controlling.

the PD program is set up in such a way that each controller acts independently: controller 1 can be controlling knobs for track 1 and controller 2 can be controlling knobs for send 3.

whenever a track is selected for control, a note message is sent to
"light up" that track in Ableton. this visual feedback is essential in the heat of a live perf.

this midi control info is all sent, via OSX-IAC Drivers (I'm on a mac, but midiYoke does the same thing on PC -- and PD is 99% cross-platform) to Ableton. The midi signal goes into Ableton as one controller, which Ableton seems to like better than 2.

*ableton template*

There are four "program channels", or four "decks". Each deck has an identical physical configuration of knobs assigned to it, so control can be committed to "muscle memory". Here's the FX config:

EQ3 (setup as HPF+LPF) -> EQ3 (set up as mid-scoop) -> Utility (gain control only) -> mdaBandisto (free distortion plug for mac or pc)

This config allows you to do plenty of cutting and reshaping of sound in ways that dont sound too "gimmicky" or "effecty".

Since the EQ's are configured in such a way that makes them "variable state" and "passive", it's easy to get a lot of subtle tones out of just the EQ stack. it's easy to isolate vocals, or take out everything but vocals, with just a two-fingered slider move.

the master outs are not used. instead, there are 8 sends. send #8 acts as the master out, and sends 1-7 have an array of effects in them, mostly reverbs, and resonators misused to act like reverbs, and cheap-sounding delays.

*program material config*

the most basic way to set up a song is to chop it into breaks, verses, intro, and outro, loop each, and render it to its own file, then put each song in a folder. when you want the song, just drag it in.

some portions of songs get cut into smaller grains though -- something like an instrumental break -- so that you can sort of "play" it. i have a folder with "songs", and a folder with just "breaks", then i have a folder with "motifs", which are these things.

hth,
rs

ryansupak
Posts: 429
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2004 7:23 pm

Post by ryansupak » Thu Mar 24, 2005 4:44 pm

oh, and no quantization.

with techno (it could be or it couldn't be, i honestly don't know) it might be ok to have every song trigger exactly in phase with each other, and for everything to "hang right" off each other, since i get the impression that a lot of the kicks come right on "the one" and "the three".

with these old records, though, the groove on different records can be greatly different in intangible ways. different verses need to hang on different breaks in subtly different ways, etc...

the long and the short of it is: sometimes a clip needs to be triggered a 128th or a 64th "ahead" or "behind" of "the one" of another clip. sometimes a verse has a vocal lead in, which might be 1 2/3 beats long or whatever. this has to be done on feel, it would be much clumsier to attempt to quantize it, and it would sound weird to truncate the lead-in.

this will be the case even if all the records are warped correctly. hiphop djs out there will know what i'm talking about, the techno djs might, but i can't speak to that directly.

$0.01,
rs

Strauzzie
Posts: 231
Joined: Wed Dec 08, 2004 5:03 pm
Location: Thieveland, OH

Post by Strauzzie » Fri Mar 25, 2005 8:12 pm

Forgive my ignorance, Ryan - what is PD? Plogue?

[edit] erm, nm. thanks google. :oops:
http://emusician.com/mag/emusic_playing_pd/

Another question though, you say your clip triggers are velocity sensitive.. how does that work with launching clips in Ableton? I thought it was on or off, no in between.

Strauzzie
Posts: 231
Joined: Wed Dec 08, 2004 5:03 pm
Location: Thieveland, OH

Post by Strauzzie » Fri Mar 25, 2005 8:30 pm

Also, with regards to your 'no quantization' post, maybe I'm understanding it incorrectly, but why don't you include enough silence at the beginning of those special-case clips so that you can back the start point up 1 bar from the point at which you want the beginning of a measure to come?

ryansupak
Posts: 429
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2004 7:23 pm

Post by ryansupak » Fri Mar 25, 2005 8:41 pm

Oh, sorry...
pd = Pure Data.

www.puredata.org

it's the newer project from Miller Puckette, who was the mastermind of MAX/MSP. i use it because it's free, and comparable for what i want to do.

With regards to lead-ins, I tried doing the "1-bar add on" thing, but it just felt clumsy to me. somebody else might like that better, but to me it was misleading because i have to wait 2 3/16 beats, or whatever, to hear if i got the timing right.

rs

::mic-minimal::
Posts: 658
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2003 8:32 am
Location: behind you

Post by ::mic-minimal:: » Sat Mar 26, 2005 3:53 am

stop traveling so much and post some more ryan its always good to read you :lol:
for the love of Live

vangroover
Posts: 44
Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2004 6:09 am

Post by vangroover » Fri Apr 08, 2005 8:56 pm

back to the original question , i have made the switch from djing to live since last november, i use the program much like you descibed, i have full songs of mine , aswell as loops form my vault of congas, pads, accapellas, drum fills , links, you name it, i run 6 channels of audio max with 2 cannells of fxs mostly filterd delays ohm boys shit.
I will do hot cues on the fly or loops starting at different points of the song, i find this easier to do whith multiple copies of the same file already chosen rather then on the fly but i have been known to change it live aswell.
any ways i have posted a set for you to listen on my server , mind you it only streams but it is a high quality sounding mix.

http://stream.samurai.fm:8030/content/live.pls

would be curious to hear some sets by other people aswell maybe i will start a post bout that, i haven't met or seen to many people in real life using ableton so i have had to learn how to use it bymy self.
Intel G4 Duo 2GHZ / 2G of Ram / OS 10.4.8 / UC-33 controller / Live 6.0.3

Strauzzie
Posts: 231
Joined: Wed Dec 08, 2004 5:03 pm
Location: Thieveland, OH

Post by Strauzzie » Fri Apr 08, 2005 9:03 pm


vangroover
Posts: 44
Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2004 6:09 am

Post by vangroover » Fri Apr 08, 2005 9:15 pm

cheers checking it now.
Intel G4 Duo 2GHZ / 2G of Ram / OS 10.4.8 / UC-33 controller / Live 6.0.3

jeskola
Posts: 1856
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 1:04 pm

Post by jeskola » Sat Apr 09, 2005 4:36 pm

Hey, heres a 40 min live set i did
http://www.twotech.co.uk/content/steven ... arm_up.wma

thing is though that although thers 4 or 5 key songs, ive taken lots of loops from them and merged them altogether, youll see what i mean when you hear... i have my set from last night recorded ill post up on monday when i at work, but i played for 2.5hrs - was primarly a dj set but lots of loops, noises and efx running throughb it, also had a second guy on laptop with an xstation playing keys, vocals and bleeps, beeps and all other noises on top...

lezef
Posts: 70
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2005 10:48 am
Location: VILLEURBANNE
Contact:

About DJing with Live...

Post by lezef » Sat Apr 09, 2005 10:32 pm

I saw Carl A. Finlow (a.k.a. RANDOM FACTOR & also Sillicon Scally) playing on his laptop last night. Fortunatly, there was a mirror behind him and I can saw this beautiful screen of LIVE 4 and a Oxygen 8 controller. Yes, he was playing with just a laptop and a MIDI controller !
And what a great sound : good house tracks with little tiny sounds played live on Oxygen 8, filtering and weird tweaking on this sounds.
My main question is that : how can he "mixed" tracks just on one single track (the left one) and put some effects and sounds on the other one ? Can we sincerely define this as "Djing" ou "GIG" ?

jeskola
Posts: 1856
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 1:04 pm

Post by jeskola » Sat Apr 09, 2005 11:21 pm

these are sends mate.
hes got effects on them, he sets up stuff like delays, revrb filters etc on them, and then "sends" the track to them. ableton calls them returns.


though sometghing from your description.. if this is correct and his tunes are all on the left then im afraid to say hes either using follows or hes got a mix alrady done, sliced into clips and presses play at the right time !!!

vangroover
Posts: 44
Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2004 6:09 am

Post by vangroover » Sun Apr 10, 2005 4:41 am

jeskola wrote:Hey, heres a 40 min live set i did
http://www.twotech.co.uk/content/steven ... arm_up.wma

thing is though that although thers 4 or 5 key songs, ive taken lots of loops from them and merged them altogether, youll see what i mean when you hear... i have my set from last night recorded ill post up on monday when i at work, but i played for 2.5hrs - was primarly a dj set but lots of loops, noises and efx running throughb it, also had a second guy on laptop with an xstation playing keys, vocals and bleeps, beeps and all other noises on top...

yo dude file not found .
Intel G4 Duo 2GHZ / 2G of Ram / OS 10.4.8 / UC-33 controller / Live 6.0.3

jeskola
Posts: 1856
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 1:04 pm

Post by jeskola » Sun Apr 10, 2005 9:59 am

try here

http://www.clublanduk.com/housemixes.html
under steven foulds.

if not ill post up an mp3 again tommorow... to be honest it was done a few weeks ago, im getting alot more confident with live when playing out, so ill also post my new one from friday night, which im really hapy with!!
was pretty lucky as got to play to a packed club after lexicon avenue - had a blast. link to follow but tracklisting ws something along the lines of, thogh as it was done with ableton, so theres loads of other beats and bobs in there:
 
pig & dan - sniper
dirty bass - at the end of it all
quivver - ??
votion - votion
pig & dan - pusher
slam - known pleasures
pig & dan - running
derek howells - you want to do what ( i think, always confused with the flip)
mathew dekay - bad
perc - busicuits for breakfast
stef vrolich - ??
?? - archetype
quivver - ??
?? - dont stop
funk dvoid - diabla
infusion - love & imitation (BID re-edit)
alex dolby - hazy way
ben simms - disco sux (original)
ben simms - disco sux (slam edit)
orbital - one perfect sunrise


let me know if the above links.

vangroover
Posts: 44
Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2004 6:09 am

Post by vangroover » Sun Apr 10, 2005 7:46 pm

no the above link didn't work for me, i became a memeber at the site and still nothing, i do understand about the track listing being a guide as i improvise my whole set aswell.
I will check back for a new link soon.
Intel G4 Duo 2GHZ / 2G of Ram / OS 10.4.8 / UC-33 controller / Live 6.0.3

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