another estblish artist talks publicly about ableton's sound

[diskowipe]

i know you guys hate these threads, but thought i'd start up some heat by linking to this very recent interview with Clink Recordings artist Insideout. Another fantastic techno producer who in the year 2010 after using ableton he switched to logic because of the sound engine...

this guy has incredible productions out on a bunch of top techno labels as well as Bruno Pronsatos new label thesongsays. i have met him before and unlike other musicians, he is very technically inclined (nerd) like most of you people.

link to interview:

http://www.fwd.dj/interview/insideout-interview

[john doe by choice]

i know you guys hate these threads

/thread

[dum]

inb4 shitstorm.

also "automation engine"



you may continue.

[d-track]

probably he had read villalobos statement on the egine
so he felt he have to move to logic to become pro
how informative internet can be sometimes
i also started to use logic (not because villalobos:) and did a test
if i throw in 200+ tracks at once i get the same noise with both engine
weird

[IP]

Here we go again!

Some people get paid for talking shit about some things.
It can happen for anything, so why not for live?

Seriously it may sound sick, but i start to believe in it

Edit

who in the year 2010 after using ableton he switched to logic because of the sound engine...

Ableton had been my weapon of choice until last year when I started working in Logic. I still use Ableton for some sequencing, but all channels are rewired thru Logic. I love the ease of use in Ableton but prefer the Logic sound engine. Not to mention Logic's incredible array of instruments and effects, which I utilize for sound design.

[Sureno]

this debate has popped up amongst a few of my freinds and although we all agree we prefer to mix down in logic we still continue to use ableton for its great creative streak and workflow how ever i find mixing just seems to come out better in logic but im not sure whether thats down to logics native tools or workflow or "sound engine" but me i feel i can just get into more detail with logic???

didnt watch the video btw

[dna598]

I gotta say (IMO) that often trying to get away with beats that are "warped clips" just sometimes doesnt work very well. Sounds all lose and unpredictable.Especially once layering begins.(+ possible artifacts).
I think this contributes to LIves much maligned "sound engine" press coverage.

That said, slicing is no fun when compared to having a sensitivity slider, and slice auditioning, which again contributes to LIves "quirky and awkward" reputation.

I for one wouldnt mind if they made a "studio" version that just did everything better (finally) and a "live" 50mb version to gig with.

[leedsquietman]

There will always be people who fall for rumours and correctional bias.

In 99% of these cases, it's PLUGINS and/or as DUM states, automation (no bezier curves yet in Live) which lead people to believe DAW X sounds 'better' than DAW Y. You can like Logic/Samplitude/Sonar/Cubase/PT plugins better and claim they have better plugins, but they don't have better sound engines ... Others still hang on to old mythology, or the belief that Live is not a serious tool but a DJ's plaything (so could not possibly sound as good, etc).

Most of these people have not conducted null tests or done proper scientific type research or blind tests, so should be careful about what they say when they trash something based on rumours and myth.

Whatever. I mix down in Cubase 5 most of the time too, but not because it 'sounds' better (prefer the dual monitor support, mixer screens and advanced crossfade options).

As I've said at least 4 times on this forum, I produced a 3 minute track with a lot of layers and dynamic swing, imported that audio (21 seperate stereo audio tracks at 24/44.1) and rendered it to 24/44.1 .wav files in Cubase, Live and Reaper using only 3rd party plugins, same pan laws, same levels, no automation and of the 20 people who listened, 16 correctly said it sounded the same. Of the 4 people who disagreed, I asked them to tell me which mix they preferred (A, B, or C), 2 said A, 1 said B, 1 said C. Then I asked them to name which DAW they think produced that mix. All 4 of them were WRONG.

I've given up busting a blood vessel over this and people should use whatever they think is right, but they should not be fooled by what someone else writes about sound quality in a magazine, no matter 'how big' a name in the techno world they are . They should objectively form their own opinions done with some proper testing. Maybe if I were an exec at Ableton, I would be inclined to legally challenge such statements (and the magazine publishing them should know better, but they LIKE the controversy as it helps generate buzz and sales).

And I include grammy winning mixers in this equation, I heard one such person talk about Nuendo sounding 'airy and with a great fat bottom end, that it was a balanced aura and warm, opposed to Pro tools being cold and thin'. This is equally false and based in myth and rumour. Almost always, the response to this is 'I use my golden ears, not graphs to tell me this stuff' as a very WEAK, epic fail, defence.

[IP]

Big +

rendered it to 24/44.1 .wav files in Cubase, Live and Reaper using only 3rd party plugins

now you know what...
they will tell you that all of them suck and logic sound better

anyway to be fair about the specific artist mentioned in this topic,
he didnt said anything bad about live,
he just prefer logic
lets skip "sound engine"

[ze2be]

i know you guys hate these threads, but thought i'd start up some heat by linking to this very recent interview

Gee, that's real nice of you..

[leedsquietman]

yeah, thanks

BTW, IP that was funny

and yes, I have done null tests in Logic, Cubase and PTHD too although that was a smaller test and done when at work.
Logic doesn't sound any better in it's AUDIO ENGINE (not plugins, not GUI, not automation, but how it RENDERS audio) than Cubase, PT, Sonar, Live, DP or whatever !

The bottom line is this : anyone who thinks Live cannot make a great mixdown comparable to Logic or whatever else either a) doesn't have enough experience using Live (and especially with warping) or b) doesn't have the requisite mixing skills, period. Or BOTH.