How is Ableton at creating polyrhythms?

[simonator123]

Hi. I am actually an FLStudio user. I love FLStudio b/c it can make literally any rhythm (polyrhythms and embedded polyrhythms, any rhythm I want or could ever dream of ). I am just wondering how Ableton is at this. I recently downloaded a 30 day trial. I don't know how to use it all yet.

ex: 5:2, 7:2, 5:2, 13:5, whatever.

thank you.

[djsynchro]

it can be done

[ark]

A clip is as long as you want to make it. It's not restricted to any particular number of bars.

I find it entertaining to take several clips with lengths that have nothing to do with each other and loop them together with each other.

[LeifonMars]

13:5

Never heard of that.

[Saxer]

13:5

Never heard of that.

probably it´s 13 "against" 5, a 13-note figure repeating against a 5-note figure in the same tempo.

easy to make in ableton: set the clip length as needed and watch what happens...

[4.33]

Hi. I am actually an FLStudio user. I love FLStudio b/c it can make literally any rhythm (polyrhythms and embedded polyrhythms, any rhythm I want or could ever dream of ). I am just wondering how Ableton is at this. I recently downloaded a 30 day trial. I don't know how to use it all yet.

ex: 5:2, 7:2, 5:2, 13:5, whatever.

thank you.

that's not polyrhythms - that's time signatures. you can setup any time signature globally or per scene (just enter it in the scene field on the right, e.g. 5/4)

polyrhythm is this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyrhythm
in ableton creating polyrhythm is easier than anywhere

[Saxer]

13:5 is never a time signature

[MPGK]

Ya, I think OP meant pretty much what Saxer wrote, and "X:Y" or "X against Y" or "X over Y" are pretty common ways to call it.

EDIT: Okay, just to be precise - X:Y means that while X notes are played with one note/instrument, Y notes are played with the other.
E.g.: "3:2" could be three quarter note triplets over two simple quarter notes.
"13:5" is a bit exaggerated, but as they're both indivisible, there's actually no easier way to write it. While 13 notes happen, 5 notes happen in the same time. That's where you grab the calculator.

It's pretty easy to do that in Live if you know your theory or just mess about a bit, although the MIDI editor has no grid for other tuplets than triplets, which is a shame.

And don't start on the odd denominator time signatures again. We just had a thread about that.

[Saxer]

And don't start on the odd denominator time signatures again. We just had a thread about that.

really? i missed that

the "X over Y" thing can also mean, that you have (for example in 4/4 with a straight groove) running repeating melody phrases of four 16th notes and parallel a phrase of five 16th notes. every 20th full note they start together, in the meantime there is a permanent shifting between them which makes interesting variations.

[MPGK]

And don't start on the odd denominator time signatures again. We just had a thread about that.

really? i missed that

the "X over Y" thing can also mean, that you have (for example in 4/4 with a straight groove) running repeating melody phrases of four 16th notes and parallel a phrase of five 16th notes. every 20th full note they start together, in the meantime there is a permanent shifting between them which makes interesting variations.

It's here:
http://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=141139

And yeah, it can mean that too. The terminology is confusing and without a certain definition, as it is often the case when talking your mouth fuzzy about music.

Well, Live is capable of doing anything rhythmically, basically. It's often easier to use an external MIDI editor to create tuplet rhythms and then importing them, but that's not that big a problem, although I still wish Live's editor was a bit, well... craftier?

[simonator123]

okay, so you can stretch a clip as much as you want, but what about embedded polyrhythms? Ex: you are playing quarter note triplets. Now, those quarter note triplets are considered to be the new downbeats. Then, within these new downbeats, you are playing some funky quintuplet pattern. Then, if you are even crazier, those quintuplets are the new downbeat. Then, within this even newer downbeat, you are playing triplets (this would be ridiculously fast, and extremely hard to play, but I'm not talking realistic here, I'm just talking theoretical).

Does this make sense?

Can Ableton do this?

[MPGK]

Be sure to check the thread I linked above.
This metric modulation you're talking about would require odd denominator rhythms, which Live doesn't support, or you could just calculate how much bpm the song would translate to when using the new pulse - Live supports tempo changes.

Not sure if that is comprehensible, so I'll use an example like Dennis did in the other thread:

If you have a song playing with quarter triplets in 4/4 at 120 bpm and you want the quarter triplets to be the new pulse, you have to multiply your 120 bpm by 4 and divide by 3. You now have the song running at 160 bpm.
To complete your example, if you want the quarter quintuplets at 160 bpm to be the new pulse, you multiply by 5 and divide by 4. The new tempo is 200 bpm and it works out fine, I've just checked it.

[Alextronica]

If you have a song playing with quarter triplets in 4/4 at 120 bpm and you want the quarter triplets to be the new pulse, you have to multiply your 120 bpm by 4 and divide by 3. You now have the song running at 160 bpm.
To complete your example, if you want the quarter quintuplets at 160 bpm to be the new pulse, you multiply by 5 and divide by 4. The new tempo is 200 bpm and it works out fine, I've just checked it.

This is great!

Where can I read more about this equation your using to figure out the new tempo? Do this have a name?

Thanks

[MPGK]

If you have a song playing with quarter triplets in 4/4 at 120 bpm and you want the quarter triplets to be the new pulse, you have to multiply your 120 bpm by 4 and divide by 3. You now have the song running at 160 bpm.
To complete your example, if you want the quarter quintuplets at 160 bpm to be the new pulse, you multiply by 5 and divide by 4. The new tempo is 200 bpm and it works out fine, I've just checked it.

This is great!

Where can I read more about this equation your using to figure out the new tempo? Do this have a name?

Thanks

Actually, I have no idea. I just figured it out with my amazing algebra prowess (cough) and then tried it out in Live - and voila, quod erat demonstrandum.
It's quite simple, actually. If you're having a song with six beats instead of four, it has to be one third faster. And if you have five instead of four, it has to be one fifth faster. Or something like that? Maybe someone else can explain it better than I can.

[naph]

ain't this just something like divide by 4, multiply by 5 ? (in the case of 4/5)

anyway, live is super intuitive at layering different rhytms imho, because of the independent loop lenght for each clips.