Advice needed for Live performance

[itusuk]

Hi there,
Here's my "problem"
I have a big Gig in a few days, I've been a dj for about 10 years now and I started a "new" concept with a friend.
We are having a live set composed of Ableton, a xoxbox, a Voyager and a Lil Phatty. (tech/house/electro)

I have 5 Audio tracks (Kick drums, Hi loops, HH/shakes, Snares/Claps, Basslines) composed of simple and more complex loops and variations(made from the scratch, not some already premastered loops), plus 3 audios Ins for the synths with some limiters on every tracks and a bit of compression and sidechain compression were needed.

We have 3 bus effects, a reverb,a delay and a frequency shifter.
So far no pb, the set is great, we both enjoy playing it, and just can't wait for the gig, we checked in mono, everything sound fine.

Every sound and sample sound right, but I was wondering if I need to apply something in the master channel for more loudness, more dynamics.
I'm scared the set will sound flat and dull with nothing on the master, will something like an Ozone 4 session would help, or should I just left the master empty?
Right now the mix is at -2Db on the master It sound good but really too quiet, I turned up the volume of each clip, but that's doesn't seem enough..
What would you recommend for a live performance (not a DJ performance)?
Any help please??

Cheers!

[luddy]

>> I was wondering if I need to apply something in the master channel for more loudness, more dynamics.

It's best if you can to have an engineer do this for you both at soundcheck and again during the show itself. It's really difficult to guess what the balance and dynamics should be ahead of time, and it changes radically when a room fills up with people.

-Luddy

[simonlb]

It's best if you can to have an engineer do this for you both at soundcheck and again during the show itself. It's really difficult to guess what the balance and dynamics should be ahead of time, and it changes radically when a room fills up with people.

This is it, it's the sound tech's job to get it sounding good through their system in the room.

[pepezabala]

put the limiter on the master and pull up the volume. this will give you loudness.

[zendrummer]

I am new how do you put on a limiter?

[Z3NO]

If you're playing a big gig with a decent enough PA it is imperative you do not apply any compression or limiting on your side. In most cases you can probably expect the PA to have already two stages of limiting along the chain, so if anything you should have a word with the sound engineer to see how the PA is set up and see where (and how) the limiter is applied.

A large number of in-house sound engineers crank up the amps to full volume and turn down the signal on the mixing desk master channel. This is bad practice in itself, but if you're sending them a limited signal you can almost be certain of a poor dynamic, muddy sound.
If you have enough outputs on your soundcard it might be worth considering sending all your 5 channels as separate feeds, so the mixing can all be done at FOH. You most likely will be listening to your material from on stage monitors, so it will be near impossible for you to judge the correct balance for the FOH PA.

I always recommend bands to bring their own sound engineers if they can. They are often regarded as members of the band themselves and always act in their best interest. (provided they know what they're doing).

Good luck with the gig!

p.s. Any time spent mastering your track (unless you are playing a CD) will be time wasted.

[itusuk]

Thanks all of ya!

If you're playing a big gig with a decent enough PA it is imperative you do not apply any compression or limiting on your side. In most cases you can probably expect the PA to have already two stages of limiting along the chain, so if anything you should have a word with the sound engineer to see how the PA is set up and see where (and how) the limiter is applied.

A large number of in-house sound engineers crank up the amps to full volume and turn down the signal on the mixing desk master channel. This is bad practice in itself, but if you're sending them a limited signal you can almost be certain of a poor dynamic, muddy sound.
If you have enough outputs on your soundcard it might be worth considering sending all your 5 channels as separate feeds, so the mixing can all be done at FOH. You most likely will be listening to your material from on stage monitors, so it will be near impossible for you to judge the correct balance for the FOH PA.

I always recommend bands to bring their own sound engineers if they can. They are often regarded as members of the band themselves and always act in their best interest. (provided they know what they're doing).

Good luck with the gig!

p.s. Any time spent mastering your track (unless you are playing a CD) will be time wasted.

That's the answer I was looking for (If I can say so...) Thanks!
The sound system will be around 15k, so pretty massive by my standard, the crowd is expected to be 800-1000, so I would like to avoid the epic fall.
So far I just have a multiband compressor on the master bus which I only used to cut the freqs under 30Hz (Eq8 isn't great for this for me)
As I said the set sound very good, but not as polished (and loud) as a commercial release obviously, I thought the fact that you need to have your track mastered for a CD or LP release would apply for a live performance as well.

Hopefully we are lucky enough to have one hour on this afternoon to do the sound check and the balance with the engineer!

Shall I have an EQ on the master if something goes wrong?

Another thing am wondering, how some electro live acts can arrive a few minute before a gig , plugging the laptop and having their acts sound great without (as far as I know) having a soundcheck ?

Cheers

[beats me]

Another thing am wondering, how some electro live acts can arrive a few minute before a gig , plugging the laptop and having their acts sound great without (as far as I know) having a soundcheck ?

Cheers

Faking a lot of their set….some necessarily and some out of laziness or fear. But really a lot of sets aren't broken down as much as you'd think from the noobiest of noobs to the most respected of pros. Having a lot of isolated tracks can cause problems with both the end sound (in comparison to the recorded release) and with glitches and crashes. This also depends on the complexity of the music but odds are if there is a lot going on in the music they broke it down into a handful of pre-mixed tracks they can play with slightly as opposed to every sound being on it's own track.

[itusuk]

Another thing am wondering, how some electro live acts can arrive a few minute before a gig , plugging the laptop and having their acts sound great without (as far as I know) having a soundcheck ?

Cheers

Faking a lot of their set….some necessarily and some out of laziness or fear. But really a lot of sets aren't broken down as much as you'd think from the noobiest of noobs to the most respected of pros. Having a lot of isolated tracks can cause problems with both the end sound (in comparison to the recorded release) and with glitches and crashes. This also depends on the complexity of the music but odds are if there is a lot going on in the music they broke it down into a handful of pre-mixed tracks they can play with slightly as opposed to every sound being on it's own track.

Cheeky monkeys!
I can't really do that though...We have 3 hardware synth played live, and I need to keep the rythmics minimal anyway..
What you explain is basically what we are trying to avoid...we want to play live, I stopped djjing as I was bored...

[Z3NO]

^^^ Cheers! Glad i could help.

Mastering in a live environment doesn't work/isn't needed.
Cutting below 30Hz isn't a bad idea just make sure your multiband isn't compressing anything.
I can't really see a benefit of having an eq on your master. Once again, that'll be the engineers job.

Your primary objective is to send as clean and unprocessed signal as possible (i don't mean effects) and watch your levels (red = bad)... any other measures you take might be all for nothing as for the rest you are in the hands of the FOH sound engineer, and his interest is also primarily to work with clean tools.

If all goes well and the sound engineer is up to par it WILL sound as good (and loud!!!) as any commercial band.

I can't think of a single occurrence when a band went on stage sounding great without a souncheck. Although quite famously Justice did a few gigs off a playback...
Quite often the soundchecks take place long before the punters get there. You might just have missed them.

[Akshara]

I'm scared the set will sound flat and dull with nothing on the master...

If the sound system is high quality and the engineer knows what they are doing, then don't worry about it. Trust your sound and the effort you have put in, and have a great time.

[re.mark]

put the limiter on the master and pull up the volume. this will give you loudness.

but will kill all dynamics

[Z3NO]

put the limiter on the master and pull up the volume. this will give you loudness.

but will kill all dynamics

and won't necessarily give you loudness either! Bad choice all round

[Z3NO]

Having a lot of isolated tracks can cause problems with both the end sound (in comparison to the recorded release) and with glitches and crashes. This also depends on the complexity of the music but odds are if there is a lot going on in the music they broke it down into a handful of pre-mixed tracks they can play with slightly as opposed to every sound being on it's own track.

Could you please elaborate where do you get this idea from?
The more stuff is 'going on' in the music, the more control you will want over it in a live environment to recreate a mix as accurately as possible. Surely you wouldn't put a sax and a guitar on the same channel so why would you do that with anything else?

[SubFunk]

put the limiter on the master and pull up the volume. this will give you loudness.

but will kill all dynamics

and won't necessarily give you loudness either! Bad choice all round

+1

forget any of that limiter, peak taming, leave plenty of headroom on the master for proper dynamics and push the volume of the venue pa up,
until your ears bleed if you like it.

but don't use compressor or limiter crap on the master.

leave dynamics, let your music breathe, no wonder loads of acts sound dull and shite.

gawd that gets me angry every time, forget about the damn volume, the PA is there for creating sheer and utter ear bleeding volume,
you are not responsible for feeding ridiculous amounts of volume already into it, and ending up making it all sound shite and flat.

i have done to much FOH / monitor and studio engineering in my life, believe me.