Recording Bus level Automation..HELP !!!

[vsukpadman]

Hi all ..
Im a LONG time protools user gradually getting to grips with Ableton.
If I have set up several audio tracks as Mix Busses (drums/bass/gtrs/vocals etc)
This is all fine UNTIL I want to record level automation on those busses... putting the bus into record of course records all the AUDIO bussed to the track as well as my automation moves , which I dont want at all..
Is there ANY way I can record level automation (I use a mackie protocol actual fader - the alphatrack frontier rather than drawing in levels)
Surely its possible to automate levels on an audio track WITHOUT overrecording the actual audio..
How do people automate an effect on an audio track for example if the track HAS to be in record?
I can see it can be drawn, but what about using a control surface of some sort?

Its gotta be simple , but I just cant see how!
Im protools, automation is armed seperately from the actual track record, so its easy...
Any help appreciated

BP

[copong]

[...] if the track HAS to be in record? [...]

It doesn't, that's just for recording audio or MIDI notes. Disarm recording on the tracks, press record on the transport control, do your knob and fader twiddling. You will notice which tracks are recording automation because they change in colour when doing so.

[vsukpadman]

aaaaaah I KNEW it had to be simple LOL

Many thanks! Ive had quite a few "gotchas" trying to equate it to protools , but getting there slowly LOL

Cheers again- much appreciated (Im sure I will be back for more answers :_)

BP

[copong]

No worries dude. That same thing bites me in the arse all the time Especially when I accidentally destroy the midi on a track I forgot was armed when recording automation.

[_asopaque]

i hope i'm not hijacking the thread, but since you did get your answer.....

can i ask why you are working in Ableton? I'm just curious, because i've been working with Ableton since v3, and i've always told myself that I should work in ProTools, because that's the 'industry standard'. But when i've tried, it was very deep, unintuitive for me, and just not very much fun. since i'm an amateur, i figured having fun and being creative was more important than knowing the 'standard'.

are you learning Ableton to work in conjunction with PT, or are you planning on replacing PT with Ableton as your primary DAW?

I'm not bagging on either one, i've just never really seen anyone migrating from PT to Live. Curious minds want to know....

[vsukpadman]

LOL I can see why it may look a bit odd
I have used PT from day 1 (before it even was called protools) I am a producer and writer mainly involved in pop music witha lot of pretty hefty sessions to record and mix , and for me protools excels at this type of work.Particularly the audio and mixing side,...nothing better in my view.
Its even pretty good at midi now with PT8 actually !
Recently though I have been working on more "dance" projects and kept hearing about ableton so tried it out.
After my initial confusion, I started to see after watching lots of "how to" videos for Ableton that for this kind of dance/pop production..everything is SO much easier in so far as putting a track together goes.its very fast ..the built in plugs are great too ..its a VERY creative platform I think (and ive only just scratched the surface)
So Im forcing myself to work in Live to see if it really does help the workflow for dance production, and so far im pretty impressed,
Im still using PT8 for recording vocals and probably for some mixing simply because it does that so well ..

hope that makes some sense !!!

BP

[_asopaque]

thanks for the reply! interesting.
since you work in the pop vein, i'm sure fidelity is always a concern. have you done any critical listening to any Ableton vs. PT mixes? It seems to be one of the criticisms of Ableton is that the mixing/audio engine is not nearly as pristine as some of the high end DAW's like PT. As i said before, my level of expertise doesn't warrant splitting hairs at that level.
I agree that the creativity of Ableton really does shine. I've worked for short periods with early Logic and with PT, and both those programs were very intimidating and cold.
I just wish they would package the Grain Delay and Looper into a stompbox! Now, that would be yummy.

thanks for the comments.
Rich

[vsukpadman]

Not done any critical listening as yet , though people have spent YEARS arguing about protools mixing/summing and whether it was perfect or not :_) Lets put it this way, for most music consumption I would defy anyone to tell the difference ..many blind listening tests have been done for the "golden ear brigade" all unconclusive about protools ... Most big records in the world are mixed on PT , doesnt seem to harm them :_)0
as for ableton , dont have enough experience of it yet to make a judgement , but I agree that splitting hairs at that level is pretty pointless unless you are making orchestral recordings at Air studios maybe
I would expect that most people consume Ableton derived music in clubs or on mp3's anyway ! LOLOL

still enjoying getting to grips with Live though , but having said that its crashing a lot (but I suspect Digi's REALLY bad windows 7 64 bit audio driver (I use the DIGI 192 interface)- its being moaned about on every DAW using digi hardware -including their own! )

onwards and upwards

BP

[dentaku]

I've always drawn in automation with my mouse because that's just the kind of stuff I create but now that I actually have midi controllers I recently realized that I didn't know how to do this correctly. I ALSO assumed that you needed to arm the track first and it just kept overwriting everything and I knew there was a way around this.

Thanks copong

[...] if the track HAS to be in record? [...]

It doesn't, that's just for recording audio or MIDI notes. Disarm recording on the tracks, press record on the transport control, do your knob and fader twiddling. You will notice which tracks are recording automation because they change in colour when doing so.