Problem with Live v8 on Mac sending MIDI program changes

[slow-hand]

Hi,

I am playing in a band that uses Ableton Live v8 on a Mac for running tracks for a live show. We would like to use a MIDI track for changing the patches on my Boss GT10 guitar controller so that I can be free to move away from my controller during the show.

So far we have been having some issues. For a test I have setup a MIDI file(created in sonar that has all the changes I use in a show. The GT10 uses two different MIDI event types. One is a program change that selects the patch, and the other is a controller signal(CC80, and CC81) that is used to change various parameters within the patch, like chorus, delay, od, etc.

The problem is that only one program change is issued through the MIDI interface(M-Audio) and that is at the beginning of the file even if the preogram change isn't issued until later in the song. All of the other program change events in the file seem to be ignored. The controller changes, however, work fine.

This is a problem for us since this means that I cannot use MIDI to switch patches in the middle of a song. We also don't want the patch change to occur at the beginning until after the count in so that the patch from the previous song will not change until it has to for the new song.

So does anyone have experience doing this? Is this a Live bug? The MIDI test file(type II) seems to work fine with various other MIDI software(Sonar, Logic, etc), but we can't seem to get it to work with Live. Any help would be appreciated.

SH

[broc]

It's not a bug, it's a special feature..

In Live, program changes are assigned uniquely to clips. The idea is to associate instruments with clips.

So in your case, you need to create separate clips for each program change.
The pc number can be set in the clip editor. The pc message is sent out when the clip starts playing.

[dintymoore]

This is what I'm talking about, and addressed here:
http://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=143964

Ableton for whatever reason refuses to make their program truly MIDI compatible. It has cost me so many hours (months?) of frustration I can't tell you. There is no MIDI Implementation Chart and it's up to the end user to "discover" what and what doesn't comply with the MIDI standard that every other MIDI program I know of has complied with since 1983. The manual barely talks about MIDI and comes off very novice.

I told them about several problems over a year ago and version after version update gets released and nothing is done. On the box that I paid $300 for it said that it handles MIDI - that is to some degree a lie.

[broc]

+ 1

I understand that there may be good reasons for Live's non-standard midi implementation.

But it's a real shame that the peculiarities are not clearly documented in the manual.

In fact, it gives the impression of unfair business practice.

[dintymoore]

+ 1

I understand that there may be good reasons for Live's non-standard midi implementation.

But it's a real shame that the peculiarities are not clearly documented in the manual.

In fact, it gives the impression of unfair business practice.

NO SHIT!

I paid $300 for it and it doesn't really do MIDI... it only sorta does.

It's like if you bought a set of metric sockets from Sears and only 2 or 3 of the sockets were metric, the rest were odd 7 sided sockets that Craftsman just made up... but the set was sold as metric.

What I expect will happen will be the same thing HP and Apple did to me: they'll "fix" it and say "ok, now it works, pay us another $300 and we'll give it to you".

My question would be "what about the original promise, the original lure? Why should I trust you now when you lied the first time?".

It feels like lack of leadership.