am i the only one freaked out about the massive oil screwup?

[Tarekith]

Bruce WIllis and his team could have fixed this in hours man, hours.

[UKRuss]

it will be strange telling my children that the gulf coast used to be a beautiful place where people from all across the country used to go to vacation, and the ocean used to be rich with some of the most diverse and colorful wildlife you could ever imagine. only to get the response, "daddy that's silly"

Who will protect the childrenz

[mikemc]

^why, Big Daddy Warbucks, of course ...

Bruce WIllis and his team could have fixed this in hours man, hours.

yah, true, but not without wrecking a bunch of really expensive looking rover type things, possibly losing a coupla dudes, and leaving one dude behind to detonate the device.

[ethios4]

why would there be regulation when the former government was sleeping in the same bed as the oil companies?

Yea, I know why there were lax regulations. To be fair, Obama has been in office 1.5 years, so this ball is really in his court. The MSS decision to not require the blowout preventer was made under Obama's watch, and since this disaster began very little has been done to correct the source of this problem. Obama appointed the Secretary of the Interior who appointed Elizabeth Birnbaum who administered the agency responsible for the lax regulations that led to the oil spill. If this happened under Bush's watch the left would be crying for blood, but since it happened under Obama's watch the anger is directed solely at the corporations, who do deserve massive blame no doubt, but it is the government's responsibility to regulate corporations.

[LoopStationZebra]

Like most things, this issue has become completely polarized.

Over on Fox News, Limbaugh, etc they are pratically ready to give BP a fucking MEDAL or something; whilst completely raking Obama and Co. over the coals.

MSNBC and other Lefties are no better. Obama's halo is glowing more brightly than ever as he expertly commands over this crisis, while cries of taking over BP grow ever louder because they are SATAN incarnate. (and Lord knows the government could run the company much better. Oh, not to mention run the cleanup better as well... )

My own view has most of the blame placed squarely at BP's feet. How you could have this kind of deep drill operation and not have well-planned and tested contingencies for any kind of disaster is beyond imagination. They were clearly unprepared, and the BP CEO has stated as much. The irony is that now there will be a host of new rules and regulations that BP could have avoided by simply being prepared. They and other massive corporations literally create the climate of uber regulation that they so despise. *see: Enron* *see: Lehman Brothers, Bear Stearns, Merrill Lynch, Morgan Stanley, et al*

Regardless, it's disheartening to find any sort of voice of moderation. "FUCK BP" and "FUCK OBAMA" will only get you so far...

[mikemc]

My own view has most of the blame placed squarely at BP's feet. How you could have this kind of deep drill operation and not have well-planned and tested contingencies for any kind of disaster is beyond imagination. They were clearly unprepared, and the BP CEO has stated as much. The irony is that now there will be a host of new rules and regulations that BP could have avoided by simply being prepared.

+1. In general, people don't realize the full nature of the oil business, and the oil business mostly likes it that way [edit] otherwise they would get questioned more about their practices.

A friend of mine worked in an oil field for a brief time, my impression was that a great deal of knowledge is gained primarily by things going wrong.

The machinery is massive and the pace is relentless, but there are not a lot of contingencies other than run like hell when something is going wrong-- which is feasible if you are in the middle of Oklahoma or Texas, not so much in the middle of the ocean. It was not uncommon for people to have fingers or hands pulled off during procedures involving pipes and chains. However, experienced workers were valued for their ability to know which way to run in a crisis.

[Emissary]

Every single person on this planet is collectively responsible for this abhorrent mess, including me. Face up to the fact that we all caused this and then we can move on and do something about it.

[LoopStationZebra]

The MSS decision to not require the blowout preventer was made under Obama's watch, and since this disaster began very little has been done to correct the source of this problem.

Hmm.

Deepwater Horizon did use a blowout preventer. There were, however, problems with the device that BP failed to address.

Actually, the Wiki article on this whole affair is quite good and comprehensive:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deepwater_ ... recautions



The arguments for and against regulations are equally as mind numbing as any other aspect of this crisis. There are already a SHITLOAD of rules and regulations when it comes to any kind of drilling. BP and others don't care because after their in-house risk analysis studies, they determine that they can pay any and all fines.

In 2008 several regulations were lifted; including the reporting of failed blowout preventers. Now, at first blush most liberal news outlets start crying OUTRAGE! OUTRAGE! BUSH'S FAULT! BUSH'S FAULT! Well.....well.....not so fast. Because of the political slant and juicy nature of this story, what they liberal news organizations tend to leave out is that WHEN THOSE REGULATIONS WERE IN PLACE THEY WERE ROUNDLY IGNORED TIME AND TIME AGAIN BY BP AND OTHERS. They became more of a financial and red-tape nuisance that Bush & Co wanted to get rid of for the sake of APPEARANCES ONLY (and to get more donation money, of course). It's disheartening that even Leftist news outlets like Huffington or Truthdig (both of whom I admire greatly) leave this sort of data out.

More regulation is not the answer. Either here in Big Oil Land or in Investment Banking Land.

The answer are penalties that actually fucking MEAN SOMETHING. You can have 1000 rules and regulations, but if they amount of little more than a slap on the wrist, who gives a shit? Certainly not the corporations. And certainly not the tax payers. The irony here is that Dems become self satisfied that government finally has their boot on the throats of these bastard corporations, and Repubs bitch and moan about more regulations. Both views are contemptible and short sighted because the corporations actually don't care either way. They are barely affected. *ie: why do you think Goldman Sacks just announced that they are fine with any new regulations that the Obama Administration sees fit to implement?*

To date, not one politician has called for fines and penalties that actually mean anything. Dems, never one to turn their back on an opportunity to seem like they give a shit, have long called for stiffer penalties, but the numbers they throw out continue to be miniscule. There's no sense of proportion at all. A $10 fine for a blowout penalty is nothing to BP and others. NOTHING. While I'm against BP going into receivership (I mean, if the government could fix this wouldn't they have done it by now?), receivership is an EXCELLENT PENALTY FOR A DISASTER OF THIS MAGNITUDE.

New Law Regarding Drilling:

1. All other rules and regulations regarding deep drilling have been rescinded. ALL of them.

2. Any environmental damage that isn't contained within 48hours will result in forfeiture of your entire company. Forever.

3. All personal assests of the CEO, CFO, CIO, Board of Directors, and top 100 shareholders will be immediately and permanently seized.

Okay, okay. Rescinding all the laws but one is a little extreme, but you get the drift.




All this reminds me of the novel Solaris. An entire planet turns out to be a living, thinking organism. Immensely powerful. When humans land on this planet, it barely notices. The humans are kicking and screaming and blowing shit up on it's surface in order to make some kind of impression. The planet thinks the humans are some of insect on it's back and utterly ignores them because...it can. BP is like that planet.

[beats me]

New Law Regarding Drilling:

1. All other rules and regulations regarding deep drilling have been rescinded. ALL of them.

2. Any environmental damage that isn't contained within 48hours will result in forfeiture of your entire company. Forever.

3. All personal assests of the CEO, CFO, CIO, Board of Directors, and top 100 shareholders will be immediately and permanently seized.

All excellent over the top ideas.

Originally I was thinking penalties should be related to percentage of profit the way some countries base their traffic violation penalties. A $500 ticket to a millionaire isn't going to bother them in the slightest but change that to $100,000 based on percentage of their income and money in the bank and that's going to hurt. The only problem with this in regards to corporations is they'll just pass that loss unto the consumer in the form of price increases. The only way it would work is if part of the penalty included no price increases for a year or some set time frame.

The only problem with your idea is there would always have to be some entity sitting in wait to take control of the company at a moments notice and these kinds of transitions are never smooth despite theoretical practice exercises.

[H20nly]

^ +1

especially this part:

The only problem with this in regards to corporations is they'll just pass that loss unto the consumer in the form of price increases.

All forms of gyrations, concern (feigned or otherwise), and action in the end will only lead here... and will some how some way be justifiable... to the same folks who have been justifying it all along. Those that curse them will also remain the same. In the end, we end up with nothing changed except higher gas prices, a fucked coast line/gulf and everything that comes with that.

This same b.s. happened in Alaska in the 90's. Exxon weaseled outta paying up and nobody did shit about it.

[beats me]

I have the public relations solution. Each BP executive and several layers of management below them should be forced to swim around in the oil spill for a half hour each day until it's cleaned up. And there won't be any hazmat team cleaning them off afterwards either. I'd tune in daily for the coverage.

[H20nly]

^ i like it... salary caps like sports. anyone making over 250,000 a year gets a fuzzy swim suit and hourly jumps in the soup. i think politicians, Bono and Michael Vick should all volunteer to help using this same method.

[beats me]

^ i like it... salary caps like sports. anyone making over 250,000 a year gets a fuzzy swim suit and hourly jumps in the soup. i think politicians, Bono and Michael Vick should all volunteer to help using this same method.

I don't believe in public execution but I do think we do need to put the spectacle of public humiliation on the table. I think the world populous would get a great amount of satisfaction and comfort out of that and I honestly believe if would be some kind of deterrent. Never underestimate the power of extreme personal embarrassment, especially with corporate stiffs.

[LoopStationZebra]

Im not sure what penalties would work; what the specifics would be.

Economist Paul Krugman and others and been making an excellent and important case for more personal liability at the top of corporations, and that's an excellent place to start. Even a number of Republicans are starting to embrace this idea. In large part because it's entirely fair. If you play nice, you get richer. If you don't, you lose it all.

From the housing crises to the banking scandals, not one of the CEOs, Presidents, or members of the Boards have personally suffered or been fined. Anyone here who has ever worked for a Corp knows that the entire tone, morality, and ethics starts from the top down. How would this have all played out if the CEO of BP would have run the risk of losing his entire fortune? Or the Board? Or the top 100 shareholders? Decidedly different, I would wager.

As it is, all the brainiacs and masterminds of those goofy derivatives schemes have made out like bandits, whilst the mid-level Lehman Brothers manager and father of 3 (who was making a tidy $300,000+ per year, thank you very much) lost everything.

I'm against salary caps. A person should make as much money as they are able. But the amount of risk should be directly proportionate to that salary.

Risk should also include a person's liberty. While I loath the thought of yet more regulations and laws (that ultimately and quite obviously don't do or mean jack shit but cost the taxpayers a shit load of money to administer), the lack of possible prison time for corporate criminals is appalling. But hey, a firmer regulation regarding a blowout makes perfect sense.

[mikemc]

from the wikipedia article. emphasis added:

The BP wellhead had been fitted with a blowout preventer (BOP), but it was not fitted with remote-control or acoustically-activated triggers for use in case of an emergency requiring a platform to be evacuated. It did have a dead man's switch designed to automatically cut the pipe and seal the well if communication from the platform is lost, but it was unknown whether the switch was activated.[38] Regulators in both Norway and Brazil generally require acoustically-activated triggers on all offshore platforms, but when the Minerals Management Service considered requiring the remote device, a report commissioned by the agency as well as drilling companies questioned its cost and effectiveness.[38] In 2003, the agency determined that the device would not be required because drilling rigs had other back-up systems to cut off a well.[38][39]

Im not sure what penalties would work; what the specifics would be.

How about, "Here's your tyvek suit, a brush and a bucket. Here is your ten square miles to clean, we'll come back when you are done."