BIG Problem WE ALL HAVE With Live

[3phase]

sorrs.. delay compensation.. volume modulation zipers gain structure.. dithering aso is all part of the mixing of audiofiles and therefore the summing of signals

its splitting hairs and missleading propaganda to say we have the same summing as any other daw ..if summing means a plain 32 bit float addition that dont says anything...

so the all daw´s sound the same myth is off the table before even start measuring...

and the myth that ableton was allways as good sounding as the others is also related that they just perform addition as the others...

in this regard any little audiotool on a mac shares the same quality..yes?

[3phase]

Nuendo sounds better than live, everybody thinks that, because its true!!!! LINK: http://www.residentadvisor.net/feature.aspx?1149

i

that is what really puzzels me .. in the real world it´s really handled as a matter of fact that the other daw´s sound better.. people dont take you serious when you say something pro ableton..the answer is allways the same.. yeah..for stage use its nice..but it sounds crap...

but than here in the forum..everybody is acting like that that debate is long from the tabl,e and live just sounds perfect if not even better than other daw´s...
You feel like a freak to have a different opinion..and it works like a brainwash..
You slowly give in.. see the possebility that you are haluzinating ...
it´s the looks..it´s the pan law.. negative biased.. comb filter fx when moving the head...

thats actually the best in all that anti audio quality bullshit..as if one soundengineer on the planet would judge a sound without moving the head or knowing his room...

just to bring up such things ..tss..

anyway.. i dont have a fuck off opinion about ableton yet... but thanks that you backed up my quest for the truth..
they are one of this modern marketing based companies.. i am actually oldschool and prefer the engineering based company . but theese companys went all bankrupt... the truth is not good for the buziness....but good for the product..and therfore good for the users

[Angstrom]

wow, scientific proof at last!
Well, I for one, am selling my license right now!!!

I can't judge it whether it does sound better or not—it's just to my ears. And to tell you the truth, software's sound is totally subjective.

well, that's final then

[starving student]

final..........neverrrr.

what about maschiiiiiiinnnnneeeeeee!!!!!!!!

[3phase]

wow, scientific proof at last!
Well, I for one, am selling my license right now!!!

I can't judge it whether it does sound better or not—it's just to my ears. And to tell you the truth, software's sound is totally subjective.

well, that's final then

final? ask 10 soundengineers and you get 10 opinions.. most of them founded somehow...

in case of the ableton sound myth only real and hard public tests can change the image...

and maybe ther are really unsolved issues that went thru unrecocgnized be being too sure that noone can hear this or that..

look at the thread... what do you do when your experts are of the kind that dont hear a different between the clearly different files of this thread?...

[3phase]

but this is a great poll regarding the old problem..

result : 2/3rd of the ableton users cant hear a thing anyway...

so there is really no point to bother about the soundquality too much

[siliconarc]

[3phase]

boozy sound

[diskowipe]

i have something else to say about Ableton which has nothing to do with sound but...

ableton has turned into such a closed off cult, people who think its such a revolutionary tool to make music because of the looping and clip view. NEWS FLASH, people have been doing the same thing in reaktor and other tools for years before ableton version 1 was even out. Give me some good step sequencers and any DAW becomes "ableton live." Ableton simply dumbed down what people have already been doing and made it accessible, even Robert Henke's px18 max4live patch says in the help window that he made his first few albums just with that!! People have been composing this way long before Ableton was ever around, and people who have jumped on the bandwagon think its a revolution in music making. Max has been out since the 70's people, ableton just packages it nicely and spoon feeds it to you so even complete idiots can use the same technology musicians have been putting on their records for decades.

Everything goes in cycles, the hype of Ableton will die someday and how the company treats and informs its users will ultimately yield its true lasting power. What bothers me is the way people like Robert Henke go around with bitter, idealist posts on the forums. I saw him trash talk jomox on one thread about how "you can do the exact same thing with operator and saturator." It's complete bullshit, sound still matters, music IS not purely science. To musicians, sound is everything, Robert Henke also once wrote in a thread that "When i hear people talk about gear, I usually dont expect much good music." Complete idealistic bullshit, the best musicians I know are absolutely obsessed with their gear and the sounds, even if some of IS bordering delusional. The point is those people make sexy shit that blows my mind and not some flat robotic "music" that only chin stroking mutek hipsters like to stand around listening to in a room full of white helium baloons with LED's. Give me house music, a dark room and a mother fucking strobe light!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

miles davis said it best "if you look out into the audience and there's no women, you're playing the wrong shit"

my guess is henke and the abes dont get much action, the music reflects this!!!

trust sound and your ears, music is everything. DO NOT fall into the trap that technology defines music as the ableton mentality tends to dictate

i would also like to add that people on here always are quick to blame warping for peoples sound issues. I have found the warping to be pretty fucking awesome sounding. Although when I gig I either play vinyl or do a liveset, sometimes I have Dj'd with ableton and to me the warping always sounds great, the recordings i get back from the promoters dont take anything away from the original quality of the tracks as has been my experience. So warping to me is one of the strong suits in ableton

[diskowipe]

wow, scientific proof at last!
Well, I for one, am selling my license right now!!!

I can't judge it whether it does sound better or not—it's just to my ears. And to tell you the truth, software's sound is totally subjective.

well, that's final then

if you want scientific proof, get a plugin that measures sample accurate latency in plugin chain and compare it to other programs doing the same things.

also why not do some tests with the same plugins and test the aliasing in Ableton compared to other programs with the same plugin chains. There is a 30+ page thread on gearslutz doing just that. Why not also test ableton internal plugins. also look at how the aliasing peaks changes depending on the order and type of plugins. you will not get uniform results in any application and this is what is meant by a DAW being "Neutral"

all of these things are measurable and comparable so there is nothing at all to question, the numbers dont lie, unless of course you are talking about abletons shitty metering!!

[leedsquietman]

The big problem people have is not knowing how to use their tools (or at least not FULLY), or don't have the requisite mixing skills, so like a bad workman blame the tools.

Live gives you a perfectly workable set of tools and a perfectly fine audio engine, if you know how to set it up to not introduce artifacts and have engineering skills. If you can't get it to sound good, it's on YOU. A lot of people are too lazy to work it out, or just believe the usual internet trash, without doing proper listening or tests.

The hype surrounding this is all exactly that - hype - with very little, if any substance. I have no preference to the sound in Live, Logic, Cubase (same audio engine as Nuendo), Reaper, Renoise - I own them all (except Logic, but I worked with it every day for 8 years at work) and having spent time working out how to get the best from each of these am equally confident mixing with any of them.

Or should we just label anything 'made in Live' as shit and be done with it. Frankly I would take Henke's opinions over diskowipe's even though I don't worship at the temple of Monolake and disagree with some of his theories and statements (although more often than not, he is bang on the bullseye).

[Tone Deft]

miles davis said it best "if you look out into the audience and there's no women, you're playing the wrong shit"

I pity you.

[Angstrom]

Biggest problem with Live = PICNIC

[diskowipe]

Live gives you a perfectly workable set of tools and a perfectly fine audio engine, if you know how to set it up to not introduce artifacts and have engineering skills. If you can't get it to sound good, it's on YOU. A lot of people are too lazy to work it out, or just believe the usual internet trash, without doing proper listening or tests.

If you understood my post you will see i didnt disagree with you. But Live has its own unique problems that cause people to have audible issues which dont exist in other applications and the company fails to rectify the situation. I dont see 10 years of threads on the internet about Cubase's sound quality, people just dont know what they're talking about most of the time or why they hear what they hear. But they 100% DO hear it, so if someone like Villalobos knows his sound is better when using other tools it doesnt matter if you knows or understand why as understanding the limitations of audio programs is different to being a good producer or engineer.

https://www.beatport.com/en-US/html/con ... 86-index=2

if you want to talk about skills, there's a link to my releases. im currently #2 on the deep house charts and everything you hear on there came directly out of my computer, no bullshit "mastering" engineers or anything like that. lots of people have the skills to produce good sounding music and i hear far more well-produced music than really good music. saying its all skills is generalized and hopelessly idealistic. of course it takes years of learning but those answers you people give are for beginners, there are plenty of talented and knowledgeable people out there looking for better ways to make better music

please link me to your records so i can take you seriously

[diskowipe]

miles davis said it best "if you look out into the audience and there's no women, you're playing the wrong shit"

I pity you.

i pity you and your 20,000 posts. thats sad at best. get off the fucking internet, im quite certain you fall into the category of ableton fanboy who had never finshed a track