What Ableton IS KEEPING SECRET about Live's audio engine...

[Leon Tricker]

3phase - thank you for allowing me to give you enough rope to hang yourself.

You. Just. Don't. Get. It.

[glenn303]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wc2o8ywK ... =1&index=5

Kinda reminds me of someone here

[3phase]

3phase - thank you for allowing me to give you enough rope to hang yourself.

You. Just. Don't. Get. It.

go play with the other kids...

[lunabass]

Well thanks 3phase and fx for being game enough to play my listening test. I respect you taking the time to listen.

+1

obviously we can debate the validity of a test like this or any test for that matter for eternity. i have no desire to get involved in that debate. before i started making a living from music i worked for a research and development dept for an optics company. strict design of experiments was a must to ensure the results of any test are as accurate as possible...i get bored just thinking about it.

it is interesting though that the guys got roughly 50% correct. what was so obvious to 3phase and fx at the time of listening is now not so obvious. people can make of that what they will, but in all honesty you're wasting your time even thinking about it

to anyone reading this thread who is concerned about audio quality in any DAW i'll just say this. forget what the fanboys say. forget what the doubters say. forget what the supposed pro's say. forget what the companies say.

do your own tests. replicate a couple of mixes in a couple of DAW's and ask yourself what do YOU hear? it might take up a week or 2 of your life but whatever conclusion you come to and whatever DAW you end up choosing it'll be a choice you'll take comfort in.

you can then spend the occasional moment when you're not making music stirring the pot in audio quality threads (apoligies )

[Pitch Black]

just write a better song, maaaan...

[lunabass]

yes. and dont hold back on the glitter

[Pitch Black]

is glitter an objective metric?

[lunabass]

yes.

i just sprinkle liberal amounts on top... polishing just doesn't seem to work unless i freeze it first

[lunabass]

i better get myself a lawyer

neb?

[nicogrubert]

I thought the own creativity is more important than the audio engine of the DAW you use.
However, I have worked with cubase and FL studio and Live for several years and Live is my DAW at the moment.
I could not really hear any difference in the audio engine. The only thing I was thinking about is: SUMMING.

[nathannn]

Well thanks 3phase and fx for being game enough to play my listening test. I respect you taking the time to listen.

3 phase commented on link 1
i only have listened to the first link on my laptop speakers.. i would say 1 and 2 are live and 3 and 4 are cubase

fx23 commented on link 1 and 2
1rst link

1 and 2 live; 3 and 4 cubase


2nd link
1 cubase; 2 ableton; 3 ableton; 4 cubase; 5 cubase+live


These are the actual results.

Link 1
1. cubase 2. live 3. cubase 4. live

Link 2
1. cubase 2. live 3. cubase. 4. live+renoise 5. live

Thanks for playing and for not passing judgement on the material. FX is also correct that Live 7 was used in the mixing of the tracks in Live, Cubase 5 was used for the Cubase tracks and Renoise 2.5

where is this link?
i know you already posted the results but i still would like to hear.

i wont bother posting anything about the sound of the files... im just curious.

[memes_33]

here is a great youtube video about how subjective listening tests can't be trusted anyways. if you have already made up your mind that ableton sounds worse/the same/better than the rest of the lot, then (most likely) you're ears aren't going to change your mind

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYTlN6wjcvQ

[H20nly]

I hear summing over outside sometimes at night. Then I hear summing in my room. I try to run but summing is all around me...

[3phase]

here is a great youtube video about how subjective listening tests can't be trusted anyways. if you have already made up your mind that ableton sounds worse/the same/better than the rest of the lot, then (most likely) you're ears aren't going to change your mind

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYTlN6wjcvQ

booth microphones than sounded more or less the same...

Dont take everything there too serious... a lot of true info ..nobody in the audio scene is questioning and some really harsh statements where you wonder where this guy comes from...

i think he trys to demonstrate flawed tests by selling a soundblaster as as good as an appogee.. (by using one of the first, 15 year old apoggees as refference) and having sound examples that sound the same on any system anyway..

things like comparing the worst neumann with the best audio technica... and keeping quite about that transient response is waht matters here..nobody can eq better transient response of a diaphram....

the very untrue things are handled quick and the true ones long...



why is he doing that?


ok..i ve seen his homepage. i think i know what he wants to sell here.. investments in acoustics..
busting the "myths" to help people to focus on what matters more than anything else


thats actually a point he has here and maybe that allows some dirty tricks..
the other side is constantly doing the same propaganda advertizing.. resulting in a phenomen that most people are willing to spend 20k-50k in preamps and mics but not more than 200 in room treatment....


so.. dont take that video too serious ..

its some kind of dadaistic performance.. a mirror for the audio industry...

edit.. let say its spiced with some obvious bended info using the same demonstration techniques a industry promoter would use.. dadaistic is a bit too much but the audio examples... when you ever have recorded acoustic guitars you know that his example is not done with cheap equipment or bad mics.. and the super midrangy stuff that would hurt the era on the best systems allready...

one propaganda is a s bad as the other,,i prefer the truth..which is hard to find when it comes to listening experiances.. for whatever reasons

[lunabass]

here is a great youtube video about how subjective listening tests can't be trusted anyways. if you have already made up your mind that ableton sounds worse/the same/better than the rest of the lot, then (most likely) you're ears aren't going to change your mind

i think that statements true BUT

subjective listening tests can most certainly be trusted when they are conducted as a blind a/b test. if someone else is switching between files for you and you have no idea which is which then you will be making a very honest appraisal without being biased towards one or the other.

still, if you have made up your mind that Live is worse, then i assume you'd be happily making music in Logic and not worrying about it