3phase wrote:MPGK wrote: And if I wanted professional state-of-the-art notation for publishing or printing purposes (notice the alliteration), I wouldn't buy Logic or Cubase just for that, I'd buy a designated program like Sibelius or Finale, which are industry standards.
As for "multitrack workflow enhancements" - whatever you mean by that - my workflow is getting better and better, especially when it comes to quickly capturing an idea before it fades away, and that's the crucial part of making a record. And my workflow wouldn't be so good if it weren't for Live's session/arrangement interaction. Sure, there's always room for improvement, but Ableton did a good job (re-)inventing this way to deal with the great art of music recording.
ok, when money is no issue an atari is certainly pointless..
It's not about money here, although you were the one who suggested to buy Cubase or Logic just for the notation feature, which are both more expensive than Finale. If you have no money, download a free program which is fine for
almost every purpose. If you need a professional tool because you're a professional arrangement/publishing person, you should
have or at least spend the money on an industry standard, and not one from 20 years ago. Plain and simple.
but what you mean with session arrange interaction?
Okay, I see this highly depends on how you use Live. I for one use the session view only for two things: to gather ideas and to perform live.
Here's how my work looks like for the electrorock duo:
I have an idea and I put it in a clip. I start the clip and I get another idea. I make another clip. I apply no mixing at this point, only necessary things like low- and high-cuts as well as volume adjustment. When I think I'm ready, I move over to arrangement view. From there, I begin to construct a song, and that's where I draw my automations, put on FX, and all that stuff. When I'm unsure, I move back to the session view to gather ideas. The song is ready, I do the mix.
To get the song to a live format, I bounce every track we won't manipulate live, and put the different parts of the song into clips and scenes.
And that works good so far.
i allways have problems with live when it comes to multitrack recordings because you cant apply changes to mutiple clips at once...like moving the start marker 10 ms... you have to go to arrange and record there and do lots of cuting and zooming arround.. and copying that back to session.. with is a really annoying process.. compared to protollos where you have all the key commands to such things in lightspeed... but also without keycommands its much quicker in applying micro edits or building loops with multiple tracks..
Why would you need to go to session view to move the start marker of a clip? I agree, you can't do that with multiple clips at once without workarounds, but what would be the point in that anyway...? If you have a set of tracks that are always lagging behind, set the track delay to +10.00 ms, and if you have a clip that starts too late, just open the clip and move the start marker.
and if there are no tricks i ve overseen...wouldnt that be a great workflow enhancement to be able to deal with 16 single clips as if the would be one?
Depends on what you mean with "deal with".
and on the output side..there are lots of other things you can do with more output busses than just surround..
Okay, I'll give you that!
however.. how to deal with multitrack recordings where clips belong to each other on the time line but you want them as seperated files is a main week point in live where some improovements can have big impact on the workflow and creative possebilitys.. session view is not really able to deal with the timeline..
you dont even get any solid information when you ant to do it on 16 tracks by hand..
as soon you zoom in you only apply edits optically..tht maybe works on drum tracks.. but on a vocal with long parts of silence? you easily destroy the source performance.. and have to rebuild it..
its actually a pain to work with multitrack recordings in session view.. and not very comfortaple in arrange...
Now I see what you mean and I get what you're saying. In my opinion, session view is not the place to do vocal recording, if not even audio recording at all.
There are also some things I miss in arrangement view, like a good way to do dubbing, and this could very well be more important than notation, but as a whole, Live works for me. Audio recording just takes a tad longer than in Logic - opposed to that, being creative is a lot easier and faster in Live! And that's why the choice is clear for me.
