why do I need m4l for just using m4l devices, not developing

[TE1973]

hi,

I did'nt find any information on why I have to buy the full development environment for just using m4l devices.
Like for schwarzonator they say it only runs if you have m4l. Is this true for all the things you build with m4l?
is there something like a 'player'. I don't want to develop.

regards, te

[phattline]

I understand that m4l cost... once payed you can programm any plugin you want, or download ready patches... or you take a max patch (there are MUCH out there) and simply make a m4l device out of it.... once payed xxxxxxx plugins and xxxxxx possibilitys for me it was a good deal.... when I think on the venegeance multisidechaincompresser that had cost me 100€ and built a device in 2 days that make the same for me... and now everybody can download.... think on save yourself 3-4 Plugs that you else pay for (synths efx, sequencers, arps...) and then you already have the money in....

(ah and i am not a ableton or cycling spam bot )

[LOFA]

Here's some more spam:

Not only will you save money, but you can make things that otherwise are impossible to create within live.

I started to take M4L for granted because I spend most of my time using it for work. Work that would not exist without it. However, that is a mistake. It has opened doors to new projects and additional income. It will change the art, entertainment and arts-education industries for certain. I'd give it a shot.

[S4racen]

Here's some more spam:

Not only will you save money, but you can make things that otherwise are impossible to create within live.

I started to take M4L for granted because I spend most of my time using it for work. Work that would not exist without it. However, that is a mistake. It has opened doors to new projects and additional income. It will change the art, entertainment and arts-education industries for certain. I'd give it a shot.

What he said...

Cheers
D

[The Northern Contingent]

I understand that m4l cost... once payed you can programm any plugin you want, or download ready patches... or you take a max patch (there are MUCH out there) and simply make a m4l device out of it.... once payed xxxxxxx plugins and xxxxxx possibilitys for me it was a good deal.... when I think on the venegeance multisidechaincompresser that had cost me 100€ and built a device in 2 days that make the same for me... and now everybody can download.... think on save yourself 3-4 Plugs that you else pay for (synths efx, sequencers, arps...) and then you already have the money in....

(ah and i am not a ableton or cycling spam bot )

This sounds like a great plugin you've developed! Where can I get it from?

[phattline]

it does not have features like equs, or hi-style-object, but it doe what i want, ducking (hostsynced 4/4) dualband (lo and high frequency seperated) the incoming audio - it is not a compressor more a AMP-ADSR that is triggert via host - and for techno this is what i need

look for 4-4Machine

http://www.maxforlive.com/library/index ... mit=Search

[jsn]

Another possibility/advantage available with having the ability to edit devices, is to be able to crack open existing editable devices and tinker around with them until you have hacked it into something new. You are not really developing from the ground up, but taking some basic knowledge learned from tutorials somewhere and applying it to hack existing devices to make them do something (oddly) different from what they were possibly designed for. The more one does this the more one is in a way reverse engineering to see how a device is developed and can apply these new insights to new hacks and perhaps one day...oops... i now have an idea and desire to try to "develop" a device of my own.

Some of the 'devices' or 'tools' found in some of the MFL lessons have been invaluable launching platforms to creating an inspiration to design new devices. It is amazing the power hidden in the included lessons, they are sometimes simple builds with fantastic results. They do a great job of starting simple and becoming more complex.

[Q&A]

That sounds wonderful. Let me put this question differently. For Ableton users who DO NOT WANT TO TINKER under the hood of MAX devices, a simple player environment would be very nice. I tried M4L on the beta and had almost bought it until I saw the price.

Not that I don't want to do some development projects, I do, but not right now. I would love to have a nice step sequencer for my APC40 for example, but that's about it really.

I hope I haven't caused any over-gasping or ruptured blood vessels. Be well.

[LOFA]

Think about it this way:

for the price of using m4l devices you also get to tinker with them. For any hardcore live user that should be enough. This means you could pay someone like me to build you whatever you felt your live set was missing.

[jsn]

@Q&A

I am glad you are excited over the possibilities. I think the price is fair for a potentially never-ending flow of plugins and workflow enhancements. As LOFA put it, you are getting the ability to edit the devices on top of everything else. It is like the added incentive. There are hundreds of devices available already for MFL. The price is becoming more 'right' as the days go on and new developments surface. There are more expensive virtual instruments out there as well. Besides, it would not be long before you would wish you had the ability to edit some of the devices because the magic comes in their hacked forms where only a few parameters are changed. I was doing this before I even knew "how" to properly tinker with Max patches. It is an investment that keeps on giving as soon as some other person in the world develops a new device you can use.

[Q&A]

I'm reconsidering my previous position stated in this thread. If this collab between 74 and Ableton is going to remain strong, with stable software and support, I think the product may be seen as a great value at the current offered price. If this is the case then I would feel good about buying the product. I have more thoughts on this but, I bet the answers I'm looking for are in the M4L discussions.
Thanks for the comments.

[S4racen]

why I have to buy the full development environment for just using m4l devices.

Its been a while since my last post and in that mean time I also gained quite a bit of extra experience with the M4L (and Max/MSP) environment(s) and well...

Right now I'd picture the answer to your question in the likes of: "Because you're not simply buying a full development environment; you're also picking up a massive extension on Live itself (but with a steeper learning curve when it comes to usage). Meaning: M4L? Sure.. You get a nearly unlimited compressor, equalizer, oscillators (think modulating existing sounds), and a load of sound effects where the sky is the limit".

I'm not talking about the patches which come with M4L here; I'm talking about stuff like the "omx.comp~" object ("OctiMax Compressor") for example. The fact that you'll have a whole new sound engine to experiment and play with.

AND the fact that you basically get Max/MSP fully at your disposal (product set to $495) for only "only" (its still a lot of cash) $299,-. With that I mean that you can create Max patches too, and fully utilize 'm using the Max/MSP runtime. Create a patch, rewire it back into Live, bingo; new sounds.

IMO its much more than merely a development environment. Just way harder to use than your average VST

Interesting, i've never considered creating inside Ableton and then running as a max patch in the runtime? I take it then that excludes any live.api objects?? But do the live.paths still work?

Cheers
D

[hoffman2k]

None of the API stuff will work outside of MFL. But with the runtime you do have access to Audio and MIDI drivers.

[3dot...]

funny ..a question that is also an answer...

[dna598]

M4l Not worth it unless you plan to stop making music and start being an experimental muso coder. IMO.

Best thing ive seen is so far buffershuffler, and that should be in suite included as live native device imo.. Certainly wouldn't buy m4l just for that.

Also Can someone just wholesale copy tapestop vst as an m4l device by now please?