Ableton - Death of the DJ

[anonymouse]

A few random thoughts, that I suppose all hover in the background for me informing my credo:

1. It is far, far easier to become a good, even excellent, musician than it is to become a good composer. (substitute "DJ" and "Producer" if you wish) There have always been many more good musicians out there than music writers. Once you have the technical proficency down it becomes all about the INTERNAL journey. Which I believe is the exact same journey taken by anyone who is good at what they do - tennis players, CEO's, formula one racing drivers, you name it.

2a. Anybody can now sound as just good as [insert your biggest name, most favourite artist here] FOR ABOUT EIGHT BARS.

2b. When everyone can sound good, sounding good isn't enough anymore and we can get back to what matters.

3. There are as many ways of listening to music as there are ways of making it. To some people music is where they get all their philosophy and wisdom from, and to some people its just a nice noise as they do the dishes. I take this as the self-evident truth that no music is right or wrong - it just is.

4. "All genres of music become parodies of themselves just before they die."

5. There will always be a 20-year nostalgia cycle.

6. There will always be a flavour of the month, you just gotta keep doing what you do. You and the public taste will intersect eventually. (Hopefully while you are still alive . . .)

7. Q: Sensei, How do I make the perfect music?
A: Live the perfect life and make music naturally.


one love
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except 4 ... i can't see a multitude of the already long established genres that have survived for decades (and some even centuries), following that path.

otherwise great post. 2a/b hit the nail on the head.

[dj metronome]

Bottom line people, No matter what your instrument is, turntables, guitar, horns, something electronic, strings, or what ever. You’re either a musician or your not. If your not- you won’t be making music, will you?

[anonymouse]

Bottom line people, No matter what your instrument is, turntables, guitar, horns, something electronic, strings, or what ever. You’re either a musician or your not. If your not- you won’t be making music, will you?

in my book, only a high level of proficiency with a traditional musical instrument qualifies one as a "musician". good at playing a midi keyboard (with both hands!) would be suffcient, but plonking along with one finger isn't.

otherwise you're just leaving yourself open to ridicule. (despite that you might be a genius producer/scratcher and knob tweaker)

[hambone1]

Hugely interesting and insightful thread, especially as I lost my graphic design day job yesterday and decided to focus on the VJ thing full-time!

I do think anyone with a chance will need to excel in certain areas that set them apart from the hordes of mediocrity. Maybe I'm different as I'm focusing on the corporate/private function thing, but as a musician and former live sound engineer, accurate hi-fi sound at the appropriate level has always been important to me. Been to too many clubs/partes with unbalanced, harsh, distorted, rumbly, improperly EQd and compressed sound.

And in my opinion, the party atmosphere is what people remember. And that means an overall sensory experience that involves more than just sound. How many clubs have had DMX lights in proliferation, yet they just beat around randomly? How many clubs that are employing a VJ now do nothing but random blobs or existing music videos?

I'm spending the next six months preparing and learning. Song selection, big-screen video and sequenced lighting, marketing. As I don't think sound alone is enough for the total experience, I'll hit them with a visual journey, feel (2kW of 70Hz kick drum, 30Hz synths, etc, but at reasonable hi-fi levels), and crowd interaction (live video of the crowd, etc), too. People like to be involved.

I think I'll leave the smells and tastes to the crowd, though!

If anyone is doing anything similar and would like to share ideas, thoughts, etc, I'd love to hear from you.

In closing, it is refreshing to read posts from educated, intelligent, and insightful people here. It certain goes against my unfair pre-conceived notion of DJs!

[MrYellow]

and crowd interaction (live video of the crowd, etc), too. People like to be involved.

You might be interested in this......
Mixed properly with other stuff it could be done tastefully.

http://www.arkaos.net/partners/vjr_description.php

edit: the bit that triggered me was "video of crowd" I believe you can have
it work with picture messages....

-Ben

[hambone1]

Thanks for the tip! Right now I'm using a digital camcorder plugged in via Firewire. My next purchase will be a wireless IP webcam with remote pan/tilt/zoom wired up to the big-screen projector via Arkaos.

In my opinion, it's about more than the music. If you want to succeed, study marketing, crowd dynamics, stage graphics, advertising, market research, sound amplification, networking (the people kind), etc, not just sitting in the bedroom/studio wanking over the latest "gotta have that one" VSTi.

And general literacy helps, too.

Just my two cents, for what it's worth.

[Angstrom]

I really like the evolution of the VJ, or whatever you want to call it. Somehow it seems to be slow, but that might be more to do with the public and promoters perception of what 'VJ' s are doing.
Actually I hate the term VJ, but its better than LD at least.

I do like that guy who performs visuals with Jamie Lidell, Pablo ..er something. That's good, he has the video mixing console round his neck and .. well, you ought to see it. Picture paints 100 words, etc.

I think the true benefits come when the VJ is trated as part of the band and comes to practices etc to jam. Just hiring a lighting guy is where it falls down, its like hiring a session drummer for the night - professional but a bit lacking in real spark.

[hambone1]

Coldcut sums it up: "The DJ will fade out, but if he's clever, he'll evolve into a multiarmed posse manipulating various sound and vision sources. There should be a new name for this, maybe a 'media-jockey'."

[forge]

Great thread!


I came accross this:
http://www.iosono-sound.com/
via another thread - I think the whole experience is going to be different pretty soon. Vinyl's been a great survivor, really stayed around far longer than expected in the 80s when Phillips brought out the CD Format, but it really wont be able to survive the next few changes. It may become 'niche' where a few retroheads keep the vibe alive and have vinyl parties etc, but a few people have said: people start to expect more as the technology advances and so the simple factor of cost will destroy vinyl as the supply/demand ratio tips a bit further - just like Kodak are already closing Film manufacture sites because everyone's getting Digital Cameras in the phone at very least.

When Everyone has an iPod mobile phone that stores 650million hours of audio or just streams 200petrabit broadband to anywhere on the planet all hours so you can just stream anything you like to your mobile (like radio stations on the other side of the planet) then WHO THE FUCK IS GOING TO BE INTERESTED IN SOME DICKHEAD MIXING RECORDS? Especially when the Pope, Bill gates and the Queen of England will be the only people who can afford to press vinyl and I dont know about you but I wouldnt camp out for that 12".

Blue Ray DVD is really close and it holds 54GB on a disc the same as normal discs. 54GB could probably hold every song + als I've ever heard as WAVs!

A record starts to sound shit if you stick more than about 15 minutes on it at 45rpm.

[anonymouse]

even if vinyl does disappear completely in the next few years, i think a few core things will stay just the same as they are now :

(1) people want to gather together in a dark crowded room with a big bassy sound system, smoke machine, lighting system and swing their arms, tap their feed and clap their hands to something over 110 bpm.

(2) people like to see someone in a booth with half a pair of cans held to their ear, nodding their head, tweaking something and occasionally slipping things out of packages (currently big 12inch vinyl sleeves are still the coolest)

(3) DJs must continue to exist for a long time to come as they are a recongnisable indication of genre and quality (or not) of the music selection that will be played and how skillfully it will be mixed; that's why ypu choose to go to one venue rather than another

(3b) DJs will become more necessary than ever as the flood of home produced music makes it impossible for the ordinary clubber to be bothered to select the good tunes from amongst all the dross being pumped out by people like us Instead they'll rely on the DJ to do the research, acquire the 320k mp3s off 40 different obscure websites and then mix it/remix it/mash it properly live.

or,

(4) Conservative Theocratic governments will take power globally, clubs and DJs will be banned, and Kevin Bacon's Footloose will be the cult underground bible of the resistance movement.

[ct43]

regarding VJ's

I remember the lighting guys that used to do Bugged Out in Liverpool around 98 - 01 time... amazing light shows, with what seemed like some thought put into it, certains lights would come on if say there was just a sub bass line playing, or maybe a chillled out section, or if things where going mental, it really would go mental! I remember when Green Velets "Flash" got played one time, ive never seen as many flashing lights when those drums came in!

Overall it really added to the experience.. I havent been to a venue since that has payed that much attention to this side of it (not to mention that best sound system ive ever heard)

[dCross]

I'm spending the next six months preparing and learning. Song selection, big-screen video and sequenced lighting, marketing. As I don't think sound alone is enough for the total experience, I'll hit them with a visual journey, feel (2kW of 70Hz kick drum, 30Hz synths, etc, but at reasonable hi-fi levels), and crowd interaction (live video of the crowd, etc), too. People like to be involved.

If you'd like some insight on how some DJs approach integration of audio and video in their sets, take a look at this interview: http://www.djtimes.com/issues/2005/04/_ ... 4_2005.htm

The Q&A section goes into pretty deep detail about how he's trying to give his music/sets a "face."

[anonymouse]

personally I might enjoy a media jockey type gig if it is chinstroking "intelligent" cosmic/poetic blahblah stuff... just forget syncing recorded video clips and instead have a bunch of laptop producers MLANed together in the orchestra pit and abstract performance artists leaping around the stage - a Laptopera if you will.

An endless collage of clever projected visuals doesn't really suit uptempo stuff. I just can't get my head around VJ really becoming a significant part of the current DJ experience

Pink Floyd, U2 Zooropa, Jean Michelle Jarre etc have all done this before, a long time ago.

VJ currently seems to be driven by the big companies who are trying to sucker a bit more cash out of the creative hopefuls, by selling consoles, effects and software. It feels as though we are being told it is the future, rather than it seeming like a natural progression.

As ct43 says, professional lighting and sound system management, if done properly, tops having a second guy on a laptop spraying his mpegs at a curtain.

I'll hit them with ... crowd interaction (live video of the crowd, etc), too. People like to be involved.

yeah right. you start projecting the sweaty pimpled faces of the crowd onto the wall of the club and you'll kill whatever atmosphere the DJ has managed to build. Have you seen the photos at the back of DJ mags of crowds in clubs? Sad bunch of washed out happyclappers; people look fairly dodgy through a camera lens.
Clubs are dark for a reason. Most sane people are not there to watch their face bobbing up and down in 25 foot technicolour with cliched reverse video and kalaiedoscope effects.

[forge]

......
(4) Conservative Theocratic governments will take power globally, clubs and DJs will be banned, and Kevin Bacon's Footloose will be the cult underground bible of the resistance movement.

Most likely scenario I reckon.

Given Oil Peak extraction is predicted for 2005, meaning 50% of the worlds oil used up and the other 50% being in really awkward to get at places it's all going to be academic soon any way! We might have to go back to ear wax edison style cylinders before too long once we run out of oil to make our computers and records with.

Unless we figure out how to beam it directly into our heads before then.

Hang on...wait...someone already did that.

Ah Well, that's it, nothing left but the total and utter collapse of civilisation to wait for now.

[djshiva]

DJing never was the most skilled of trades with the exception of turntablists, what seperates a good dj from bad to me is their choice in music and picking a set ie. a selector. Soon there will be no DJ's (or if there is they will be old skool) only selectors.

I don't expect it will be long before a program will come along where you load your tracks and leave it to it... beat match, mix, filter, find best sequence, add fx etc. basically do all the technical stuff.

DJ's, learn to dance.

bah. a computer doing all that shite will never be as interesting as a human composing it themselves.

DJing is still fun for me, even more so with new angles to approach it with.