Ableton and dance music

[supster]

hey ...

i listened to all three of these but the one that stands out the most for me is My Fantasy

if i were seeking out tracks for a label this one would catch my ear right off the bat - this is some good, memorable songwriting.

it has a really cool 80's vibe - the cool thing about it (imo) is that it borderlines on a cheezy 80s movie soundtrack feel - but ends up *not* sounding cheezy at all because of the way its arranged.

the vocals in particular are very cool - who is your singer? and are they up for doing more jobs?

about the technical stuff:

it actually sounds really good, agreed it needs more punch.

in case of the kick i think a different kick would do it - its not low enough. you have a midrangy bass with tons of room for bottom end. in this case i would cycle thru some different kicks until you find a deeper one with more *thud* before you try any processing wizardry.

in general i think overemphasis is made on the kick in dance - yes its important - but its not rocket science to get one that pulls thru in your mix, you just need to focus on the kick / bass together for a while and make them work well together - then make them work in the mix

in the end nobody cares about the kick unless theyre not hearing / feeling it, the most important thing is the songwriting and arrangement and you have that with this track.

i think all of the drums need more punch - kick and snare especially. try layering the snare with different textures on each to get a combo that compliments your kick and really stands out. are you using compression yet? - if you are not an expert on compression (the way most of us are not) look into a VST called Wavearts Trackplug:

has EQ and compression with a graph allows you to visually pull your ratio/threshold/attack/release until you get a sound that is working. simplifies the process alot if your not sure how to tweak them.

focus in on your 8/16 bar sections and add some tiny variations to each to keep interest, i agree the break needs more movement / originality ... the kick runs all the way thru it, have you tried pulling it and workiing more on your instrumentation? .. but the buildup is defo on the right track i think,


but you have a potential dancefloor hit on your hands here dude, its really catchy in my opinion. it sticks in my head which is more than i can say for most dance tracks.
.

[jt_castillo]

hey, sly, you were dead on, man.

looked into it and sure enough, when i last mixed/mastered the songs, i had played with some kick tightening techniques, and had set the multiband delay too great.

thanks for pointing that out, good ear.

--jt

[jt_castillo]

hey, supster, thanks for the feedback.

[jt_castillo]

sup guys,

been getting a few emails asking about the vst and fx stuff used in making these songs. thought i'd post it here and contribute, hope it helps someone out there or expands your arsenal of tools.

different subsets were used in each song, but here is a compilation.

mixed:
ableton live 4

mastered:
wavelab 5

instruments:
reaktor - drums
kontakt - drums, percussion
zeta+ - bass, synth
vanguard - bass, synth
fm7 – synth
korg legacy – synth, fx
guitar rig - guitar
absynth 3 - fx, percussion

devices:
waves q10 eq
waves c1 compressor
waves renaissance compressor
waves maxxbass
ozone izotope
psp nitro
waves deesser

returns:
waves truverb
waves renaissance reverb
waves 2tap delay
psp 84 delay
spinaudio chorus
custom-made vst fx plugins

mastering:
waves q10 eq
waves lineq broadband eq
wavelab puncher
wavelab stereoexpander
waves multiband compressor
waves l3 multimaximizer

other:
waves paz frequency analyzer
vogengo span

cheers,
--jt

[the truth hurts]

So don't get me wrong. I'm not a mean person, and I'm not hating just for the sake of hating. In fact, I would say that what I'm doing is a public good... something along the lines of telling your friend when he/she gets a really bad haircut. Because no one wants to walk around not knowing they have a bad haircut.

Because THIS HAS TO STOP. This is unhealthy. Actually, this is painful. I barely managed to get through a couple of these trax, and I couldn't bear anymore. So let's say it's 1998, or even 1999. Maybe, just MAYBE I could see these trax coming out during the progressive house/trance hysteria when soooo much bad music came out. But to see that people are still putting their valuable time and money into stuff like this now is just wrong. In fact, I could argue that it should be illegal. Well, I guess that would be censorship, and censorship would be worse. But getting back to the topic at hand...

Sure sure sure... it's a matter of opinion, and art is art. So much of art has to do with how the work affects us as individuals. But sometimes, there's bad art. I mean really really bad art. I don't care what people say... art can be objectively bad. It's a well known truth... c=3x10^8 m/s, q=1.62x10^-19 C, and “Strange Night”=bad music.
Ok, so maybe I’m being harsh. But the truth hurts. It’s somewhat like that philosophical question, “would you rather be ignorant and blissful, or omniscient and sad.” Anyway, it’s important that you find out now. Make ambient music, techno, jungle, or even house. Actually, that 2:20 long breakdown in “Strange Night” alone could be an ambient track. (Yes, I measured, and yes, it’s a 140 second breakdown, and yes I measured twice in disbelief.)

I guess what I’m trying to say is that you need to stop making music like this for your own good (and our good too). I can tell that you spent a lot of time on these trax (and a lot of money on software). Use them to do good, not evil. I know the dark side is strong, but you can be stronger.

[jt_castillo]

hey truth, thanks for the honest feedback.

you have some valid points there. i apologies for offending you with my music, i just try my best, man.

--jt

[Sly One]

Ignore him. It must be upsetting knowing that there are whole scenes out there of people who can't be told what to like.

So he doesn't like your music. Big deal. If a magazine worth its salt were reviewing it, they WOULDN'T GIVE IT TO HIM TO REVIEW. They'd be giving it to someone that liked progressive trance, so it could be reviewed on its merits.

To my mind all new, original music does is ADD TO THE PILE OF GOOD MUSIC. It doesn't somehow invalidate everything else. I like most trance, most house, most techno, most breaks, lots of ambient, some global, some drum and bass, some IDM, some psytrance, some goa and even a little bloody gabba. I also like metal, indie, folk, classical, baroque, jazz, and slews of music I've not even heard yet. When I hear something new it never pushes out the stuff I heard five years ago as "old hat", and I don't think I'm that unusual.

[beachnote]

whoahohohoho....this is just tooooo guud

some dude creates a new forum account just to make a post to flame jt

haha, thats fukin brilliant

hey, truth fukhead, even if i hadnt taken psychology and human relations classes in colledge i would still see how utterly envious you are of him by your post, and what a selfish, bitter, and total piece of shit you are

theres nothing wrong without liking someones music, and you can freely post that on here like others have, but to dis someone like that is childish and just plain fuked up...you must be one hellova ignorant son-of-a-bich

and worst of all, you are probblay talentless, and suck ass

and j dont apologies to this fukhead...you already making enemies, thats a good sign bro

peace

[lanquarem]

Hello. I'm not a dance music producer, so my technical advice would be useless.

Anyway, I listened to the three tracks.
They are really cool in their style, I enjoyed listening to them.
Definitely the Third one is my favourite. It stands out and has something more than "just another piece of nice dance music".
Nice website, too. I'll be coming back to it sometimes.

fred - www.lanquarem.com

[anonymouse]

it is odd to many that anyone would have a passion these days making formula trance. but we can't censor it.

there are MAJOR taste differences between what is liked and respected in the US and what we like and respect in Europe.

this guy represents half the marketplace for example

http://tinyurl.com/4pslz

if only the widening gap between US and Europe was limited to music

truth hurts, you should have just used your real ID to back-up your opinion.

A day will come when JR may wake up and think, jeez, trance is lame.
But until that day happens, let him enjoy what he is doing.

He has progress to make before his trance-making abilities really have something special and fresh to say. But its not bad stuff, is well produced and he's taken everyone's view here repectfully.

[siddhu]

Hey,

Just to let you know I listened to your tracks and really enjoyed the third one.

Don't let naysayers drag you down, there is some great talent going on...+ your site is pretty hot!

[anonymouse]

JR, who are your main influences for the music you like to make now?

(I don't mean roots influences like Sly & The Family Stone or anything, I just mean, for your part of the world/spectrum, who are the really influential trance producers that are putting out cutting edge stuff thee days)

I've not been into trance for about 10 years, but I'm curious as to what is going on now and what interests you.

I liked Astral Projection, House of Limbo etc and then drifted into Tribal House, Danny Tenaglia type stuff, before slipping down the bpm scale into chill out, fripp, bukem style dnb & electro dub. all the while I also listened to all sorts of rock, Zeppelin, Floyd, janes addiction, electronica, NIN, FSOL, Orb, Orbital, Primal Scream, 60s Psych like 13th Floor Elevators, Spirit, Chemical Bros, DJ Shadow, Miles Davis, Beastie Boys, Boards of Canada, vintage Rhodes soul n funk etc.

Now I'm in a sort of genreless phase of all sorts of things, which if both difficult and easy when it comes to trying to produce.

If you could give a quick round up of what is going on in the trance scene these days, it would be very interesting for those of us out of touch with it. Particularly when listening to your tracks and knowing where you are coming from.

PLUS - despite that I think I am the [corny but true] master of my unique musical destiny [/corny but true] the naysayers and cold hard criticism are the food I feed on to improve what I try to do

[jt_castillo]

hey anon, what's up

there are some great musicians you mentioned there, man.

but as for the latest and greatest on progressive house, or whatever other genre you want to call it, it all depends on who you ask, and what mood they are in.

i will say my favorite dj is digweed, and i fancy producers like deep dish, futureshock, and countless others that come and go with the rise of hits. with that said, i only listen to dance music when i'm working.

i'm 'genreless' myself, i don’t care for classifications like that and don’t try to put my music in a certain genre, i just make whatever sounds good to me, i'm sure someone else will 'genrelize' it for me.

my real influence is blues. i grew up playing and composing jazz. to this day i still play blues guitar and piano regularly, and nothing gives me greater satisfaction.

my greatest influence and favorite band is pink floyd, followed by zeppelin, the doors, hendrix, pearl jam, and many others who made music from the soul and with passion.

and those are still the influences for the music i like to make now, i just make it using different methods and for a different purpose than they did.

--jt

long live pink floyd...

[anonymouse]

cool. Deep Dish are excellent. Haven't listened to them in a long time though.

as we like the same names, maybe check out Bonobo, Quantic, Cinematic Orchestra, Theo Parrish, Amon Tobin. Boozoo Bajou. Nuspirit Helsinki ... and of course I forgot Massive Attack.

Given your influences, you know exactly what you are doing with your choice of trance production.

All I'd say is keep the heart trance if that is what you dig at the moment, but it might be very interesting to weave in some surprises that have a feel of the influences that you appreciate.

Clever fusion, if you can pull it off smoothly, might cause your audience to seek you out for more when they hear something special.

(Depsite that I expect that they may already be enjoying your stuff as good quality pure trance.)

[LOFA]

Yeah Jt,
after I read that part about all of your software and the fact that you custom made some of your VST's I too got jealous, but I didn't need to start up a new account and project like that asshole.

Truth be told, you have some skills at editing, and what you do is light and tight. I too went through a phase where I had to huff gasoline in order to like music, and usually all I could stand was the more abrasive Aphex Twin, Paul C, and squarepusher stuff, but what you presented us with is a very positive, and universally pleasing music.

Props

And for the new guy? I know where you can find some "props" to help you through your development cycle... now what was the order? Oedipal, oral, and then anal? How about Goat-Fu_ker, where does that come in? Neeaheeaheeaaheaheahheaahh...