Emulating hardware synths in Operator - Juno 106, SH-101 etc

[jamctelex]

Does anyone have any good presets that emulate real hardware synths? Operator has so many options that it can just get out of control for me. Hardware synths have specific feature limitations that give them their character and make them what they are. No limits=no identity.

Does anyone have a suggestion for how to set up a operator to replicate a Juno or any other analog synth?
Oscillator order, waveform types, feature limitations, etc?

[Saxer]

you´ll never get a real copy of a specific analog synth on operator... it´s difficult enough for programmers building a hardware-clone as a plugin from scratch.

anyway, the concept of limitations isn´t bad.

i´d suggest to set controllers to the parameters you want to edit, so you are limited to them.

i have an old and damaged hardware virus A, which doesn´t sound anymore, but gives out midi-controller data when turning knobs. i use it to control software-synths, waveform, mix & octaves on the oscillators, filter cutoff and resonance, envelope amount and the envelopes itself... that mainly is it. so i can edit sounds very easy and direct without mouse and looking at the screen. it´s not for the "deep inside" editing, but a fast way and enough for most needs. like the old analogues...

[Harris.Andrew]

Does anyone have any good presets that emulate real hardware synths? Operator has so many options that it can just get out of control for me. Hardware synths have specific feature limitations that give them their character and make them what they are. No limits=no identity.

Does anyone have a suggestion for how to set up a operator to replicate a Juno or any other analog synth?
Oscillator order, waveform types, feature limitations, etc?

Especially for the more popular analog synths, there's actually quite a bit you can learn about the synths online. Mostly it's probably worth tracking down oscillator/voice count, filter types, onboard effects. Waveforms tend to be pretty straightforward on purely analog stuff (well, at least in categorization). Especially with filters and with all of components of analog synths, all these components tend to be idiosyncratically implemented - that's what makes the stuff unique. So, getting high-quality emulation from Operator isn't always reasonable to expect - although surprisingly flexible when it comes down to it, it really is a bit more of a minimalist sort of approach, not a juggernaut that can do everything. But if you match the architecture component per component - possibly using multiple instances of Operator - that should at least be a start.

Of course, one other option would just be, use the Analog instrument. It's fairly close to the Juno already. Or the AAS Ultra Analog plug which is the same thing (can be found pretty cheaply second-hand). It's a bit tricky to say it can do things Operator can't since there are a some great tricks up Operator's sleeves, but ultimately it can and it's designed in a way that will be more natural for this kind of VA stuff.

Ultimately what I would want to recommend though - a year and a half or so ago I picked up u-he Zebra, it's a pretty universal VA and very deep - it's a very special, very dynamic piece of software and does a ton of VA sounds (and others, too) very, very well. I couldn't be happier, it definitely has satisfied a lot of sound-lust.

[doghouse]

There's free softsynth versions of both the Juno 6 and SH-101; VST or AU, PC or Mac. Easier than using Operator

If you must use Operator, those Roland synths are very basic...one VCO (with mixable waveforms and subosc), one EG, one LFO, 24 db low pass filter.

--- To duplicate the mixable waves and subosc use three of the four Operator oscs, two set to a square or pulse wave, the third to a sawtooth. Tune the saw and one square/pulse the same; for the sub tune the second square wave one or two octaves down from the others. Balance the three oscs as you see fit.

--- To duplicate the single EG, set the osc envelopes the same as the filter envelope or create a gate envelope (A, D, R=0, S=max) for all oscs (this was an option on the Rolands).

Then start programming patches...

[jamctelex]

thanks,
these suggestions were really helpful. i'm playing around with things and will post some results soon. went on vintage synth explorer and mapped my midi knobs only to the parameters that were editable on the various synths i was trying to emulate.

on the juno-type preset i'm working on, i am using two oscillators sequentially; one square and one sawtooth. there are a lot of different saw tooth waves and square waves in operator each having their own characteris. is there one that is more common on old synths than another?

[mholloway]

thanks,
these suggestions were really helpful. i'm playing around with things and will post some results soon. went on vintage synth explorer and mapped my midi knobs only to the parameters that were editable on the various synths i was trying to emulate.

on the juno-type preset i'm working on, i am using two oscillators sequentially; one square and one sawtooth. there are a lot of different saw tooth waves and square waves in operator each having their own characteris. is there one that is more common on old synths than another?

any particular reason why you're trying to emulate subtractive synths on an FM synth??? You'd be far more likley to get matching results using Analog in place of Operator. The latter is great, but for your purposes, seems like moving in the completely wrong direction, unless that is the whole point of the challenge for you, in which case, rock on!

-M

[jamctelex]

thanks,
these suggestions were really helpful. i'm playing around with things and will post some results soon. went on vintage synth explorer and mapped my midi knobs only to the parameters that were editable on the various synths i was trying to emulate.

on the juno-type preset i'm working on, i am using two oscillators sequentially; one square and one sawtooth. there are a lot of different saw tooth waves and square waves in operator each having their own characteris. is there one that is more common on old synths than another?

any particular reason why you're trying to emulate subtractive synths on an FM synth??? You'd be far more likley to get matching results using Analog in place of Operator. The latter is great, but for your purposes, seems like moving in the completely wrong direction, unless that is the whole point of the challenge for you, in which case, rock on!

-M

ha, good point.
going to start digging into analog now.

[dentaku]

If you want to do this using just the native Ableton Live tools that's fine but it would just be logical to try out U-NO-60 (Juno-60 emulation) http://kunz.corrupt.ch/?Products:VST_U-NO-60:Download
and Tal-Bassline (SH-101 emulation) http://kunz.corrupt.ch/?Products:VST_TAL-BassLine

They're free and are already setup just like the original old synths with all the same limitations as the old hardware.

[jamctelex]

downloading now. thanks dentaku!

[JEpic]

Another recommendation for the TAL Uno 62 and Bassline, very simple to get great sounds with these, follow it with and overdrive and chorus/phaser and your good to go.

Easy on the CPU, and sound good too. Definitely grab Elektro II while you're at their site as well.

[Machinesworking]

Gonna repeat what mholloway said here:

Operator is an additive FM synth, not a subtractive synth like the analogues mentioned.
Sure you can get sounds that are close from both, but when people want to emulate a 106 they're talking about a subtracive synthesis sound that FM additive synths don't do well at all. Just saying, inform people of the varieties of synthesis and let them learn a bit.

[drchoc]

As an exercise I think its a great method to copy the parameters available in a more simple or classic synth and rack them up. The results will certainly be different.

[JEpic]

Gonna repeat what mholloway said here:

Operator is an additive FM synth, not a subtractive synth like the analogues mentioned.
Sure you can get sounds that are close from both, but when people want to emulate a 106 they're talking about a subtracive synthesis sound that FM additive synths don't do well at all. Just saying, inform people of the varieties of synthesis and let them learn a bit.

Hmmm, but using the last algorithm, Operator becomes a 4 osc subtractive synth, doesn't it?

I've never used it this way, so I don't know how practical that actually is.

[abletony84]

thanks,
these suggestions were really helpful. i'm playing around with things and will post some results soon. went on vintage synth explorer and mapped my midi knobs only to the parameters that were editable on the various synths i was trying to emulate.

on the juno-type preset i'm working on, i am using two oscillators sequentially; one square and one sawtooth. there are a lot of different saw tooth waves and square waves in operator each having their own characteris. is there one that is more common on old synths than another?

cant wait and see what you come up with man.. this stuff has been on my mind for a long time too..

[Machinesworking]

Hmmm, but using the last algorithm, Operator becomes a 4 osc subtractive synth, doesn't it?

I've never used it this way, so I don't know how practical that actually is.

Why would you? any subtractive thing in Operator is just an add on. Point stands, Operator is not made to emulate analogue gear, and is dammed near the worst choice for doing so. Now getting Operator to emulate a DX7 or Casio CZ101? that would be pretty easy compared. Anybody with an understanding of the basic concepts behind various methods of synthesis would come to that conclusion.