Levels, mixing and headroom?

[trexmatt]

Hi,

I am confused about proper mixing techniques in relation to volume levels and headroom and I was hoping I could get some clarification/advice on the matter.

For example, lets say I have 3 tracks in Ableton, DRUMS, BASS and SYNTH.

Where do I want the levels to be on these tracks? Do I want them all as close to peaking (0db) as possible? What does this mean in terms of headroom? What do people mean when they say to mix drums (or whatever) at -12db (or -8 etc)?

What about the master? Do I want the master as close to peaking as possible as well?

Another thing that confuses me is, in Battery, a lot of my drum samples peak the the Battery volume meters (turn red). Is this bad? Does this mean anything? Should I turn Battery's master down?


lol that's a lot of questions
Thank you very much for your time, any help is much appreciated...

[Jury_Nelson]

WAY not an expert, but the red generally means there's a risk of clipping. That awful clicking sound that means you're taking in too much signal for your machine to process.

Though in the past, I've done what you seem to be trying to do, just get everything as loud as possible to keep the master track out of the red, and everything i put out in that way seems to be too quiet.

The more sophisticated poster might mention something about the "loudness wars" and compression and all that, but I don't know. The one thing I HAVE heard is that mixing in a scenario where you DON'T have to make things just be loud is much better.

My Impulse drum samples almost always peak out the red and then I turn them down, but that's usually a good idea.

In short: i don't think the red means you ARE too loud, it means you're in danger of BEING too loud. If it hits the top of the bar and has no place else to go, your sound is going to be in trouble.

[contakt321]

Leave your master at 0 db

Mix your 3 tracks so that they are at the correct volume in relation to eachother, but they aren't making the master clip.

I pay a lot of attention to headroom these days after learning more about it, and it's really helped my finished mixes. Get ready for people to starting talking about "floating points" and "plenty of headroom", I however would rather be cautious and strive for as good of sound as possible. Here are some of my tips for getting the best sound possible and maximizing your headroom:

- Adjust volume at the source (as in, on the sample, or VST) for best results
- Don't clip VSTs or Effects (check out the little meter on the side of the plugin/effect/inst)
- Don't adjust your master output
- Don't clip your master output
- Don't put any effects on your master output
- A good general guideline is to mix your kicks around -8db, and your sub around -10db and then mix from there

[luddy]

^^ what he said.

Also, beware that some plug-ins behave badly when they get too-hot inputs (over 0dBFS). It just depends on the plug-in, but you can't go wrong by keeping your levels safely below 0dBFS in between plug-ins. Live is pretty good about showing you levels all along your effect chains with the little meters in between instruments and effects so that you can keep the levels in check.

-Luddy

[trexmatt]

Thanks for the responses people, definitely helped clear some things up!

Though in the past, I've done what you seem to be trying to do, just get everything as loud as possible to keep the master track out of the red, and everything i put out in that way seems to be too quiet.

Same here, my renders always seem very quiet...

[contakt321]

I think if you start paying attention to headroom, you will start getting better quality mixes. This is part 1.

Part 2: Another thing you can do to create headroom is HiPass Filter and EQ instruments to remove frequencies you don't need in your mix. This will allow you to raise their volume of each track because there are less frequencies taking up space and energy.

For example:
You have 3 tracks in Ableton, DRUMS, BASS and SYNTH
HPF the Kick at 50hz
HPF the snare at 200hz
HPF the bass at 20-30hz
EQ the bass a small 2-4db dip at the exact area your kick drum is peaking (use spectrum and check out the dominant frequency)
HPF your synth at 400hz
EQ the bass and lower the 500hz plus area (or whatever general frequencies your synth is occupying to make room)
MORE IMPORTANT THAN ANYTHING: Use your ears, don't make things sound worse or thinner. I am constantly comparing solo-ed channels w/ the full mix. It's okay if things sound slightly thinner when solo-ed, but you definitely want your mix to sound nice and full. USE YOUR EARS!

Now, set your levels again, so they are all sounding good relative to each other but not clipping your master. How does it sound? Theoretically, your mix should sound cleaner.

Part 3: Your tracks will always sound quieter than commercial released music. This is because the released records are likely mastered. I would focus on getting the best mix you can w/ good headroom. People can always turn their stereo up.

[smaucher]

For example:
You have 3 tracks in Ableton, DRUMS, BASS and SYNTH
HPF the Kick at 50hz
HPF the snare at 200hz
HPF the bass at 20-30hz
EQ the bass a small 2-4db dip at the exact area your kick drum is peaking (use spectrum and check out the dominant frequency)
HPF your synth at 400hz
EQ the bass and lower the 500hz plus area (or whatever general frequencies your synth is occupying to make room)
MORE IMPORTANT THAN ANYTHING: Use your ears, don't make things sound worse or thinner. I am constantly comparing solo-ed channels w/ the full mix. It's okay if things sound slightly thinner when solo-ed, but you definitely want your mix to sound nice and full. USE YOUR EARS!

brilliant! Thanks!

[FunkFest]

These are all great replies and pretty much cover the issue.
If you have a little spare time and are feeling geeky, go and read this thread over at gearslutz:

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-much- ... tored.html

Especially the contributions by Skip Burrows and Paul Frindle are an education by themselves.....
You don't need to read further than page ten, though....unless you really want to...

regards

[fishmonkey]

that gearslutz thread is an essential read!

[Tarekith]

More mixing ideas:

http://tarekith.com/assets/mixdowns.html

Personally I don't agree with using high pass filters on track as a matter of course, I get a lot of really 'thin' sounding tracks sent to me because people over do it. IF you have have a track with excessive low or low mids that's clashing with other parts of your song, by all means use a high pass. But don't do it as a matter of course, and if you do use it, you don't need to completely remove lower freqs, just turn them down enough that they are not a problem.

[fishmonkey]

Personally I don't agree with using high pass filters on track as a matter of course, I get a lot of really 'thin' sounding tracks sent to me because people over do it. IF you have have a track with excessive low or low mids that's clashing with other parts of your song, by all means use a high pass. But don't do it as a matter of course, and if you do use it, you don't need to completely remove lower freqs, just turn them down enough that they are not a problem.

i think some of the advice above about drastically EQing out low freqs is a bit of a bastardisation of the common practice of using steep HPFs to remove extreme low end crap (usually less than around 10Hz or so) when mixing recorded material.

actually that gearslutz thread also mentions how it is important to use low pass filters when working ITB, to manage harshness and depth perception.

[Tarekith]

Yeah, it can be useful tool too, again as long as it's not done on all the tracks (or the master). That was a trend I was seeing last year, getting all these tunes that were high and low passed for no real reason.

[evon]

Totally agree with everything said above. I try to keep the signal hot throughout the mix. The track volumes can vary but the signal levels should always be hot.

IMO the track volume does not affect the final mix significantly.I prefer levels that are comfortable to work with.

I believe this is where a little bit of art comes in.
The ME would want to optimize the levels and preserve just the right amount of headroom to match the compressors and limiters that will be used to maximize the final mix.

Some compressors might not sound musical if they are stretched too much, and no matter how good a compressor is there is still a limit as to the parameters in which it can operate musically. It is because of this I believe the standards regarding headroom evolved.

[leedsquietman]

One thing to remember that hasn't been discussed is working with 16 bit audio.

I am all for dynamics, leaving good headroom and being a bit quieter - this is fine for 24 bit audio or 32 bit float etc.

When you record with 16 bit audio though, you need to record hotter and closer to peaking at 0dB in order to minimize noise.

Of course, it's recommended that you record in 24 bit or 32 bit float to allow yourself more wiggle room and retain headroom and dynamics, but if you have an older, less powerful system (16 bit audio eats less diskspace and CPU), or the foundation of the track is a ton of 16 bit audio samples, it can sometimes be better to continue working in 16 bit rather than converting files to 24 bit or higher etc.

I always leave the master fader at 0dB but mostly from habit of working in the analogue domain, I find it a good habit though so won't change - adjust your track channels and groups instead.

High Pass Filtering IMO is essential for clarity but don't overdo it and use AUTOMATION so when low end parts drop out or are muted, you don't have a thin, scratchy, nails down blackboard type of sound. For example, if your track starts with a pad soloed (notorious for overusing low end bandwidth), use automation on your high pass filtering so that when the pad is soloed you LEAVE the low end in *HPF off* and when the bass and kick come in use automation to turn the HPF on to make room for the kick and bass. People get lazy and just leave HPF on (or they cut too much low end, instead of sweeping through the band use a preset number) and then the soloed pad sounds thin and empty.

Your 24 or 32 bit mix SHOULD sound a lot quieter than commercial releases - they have been finished with mastering processing, which gets your mix ready for release and among other things, often uses volume maximizing processes to get your mix sounding closer sonically and gain wise to commercial releases in your genre of music.

[contakt321]

High Pass Filtering IMO is essential for clarity but don't overdo it and use AUTOMATION so when low end parts drop out or are muted, you don't have a thin, scratchy, nails down blackboard type of sound. For example, if your track starts with a pad soloed (notorious for overusing low end bandwidth), use automation on your high pass filtering so that when the pad is soloed you LEAVE the low end in *HPF off* and when the bass and kick come in use automation to turn the HPF on to make room for the kick and bass. People get lazy and just leave HPF on (or they cut too much low end, instead of sweeping through the band use a preset number) and then the soloed pad sounds thin and empty.

THIS!

Also, read Tarekith's guide, great, super useful read. I agree - you don't NEED to go nuts HPFing everything. I think your ears should dictate what needs it and what doesn't. That was just a specific example to illustrate what and how, I should have been clearer.

I also agree - I automate my EQing a ton, so it's filtered/EQed when in the mix, but when I solo it's not, so the sound is fuller.