The Maschine & Ableton Love Thread ;) [upon user request]

[delicioso]

i went through some videos and some info but (call me a noob) i totally didn't understand what the heck Maschine is about.

If you actually read this thread, you'd have a better idea. The point you're missing is that it's the first ever software (other than perhaps trackers) that works just like standalone hardware with the same type of hands-on dedicated controller and the efficient workflow that comes with it, without any of the inherent limitations of standalone hardware. That also means not having to touch he mouse or look at the computer screen if you don't like to. It's just much faster to work with compared to the things you tried to compare to.

[andrewbrewer]

what i like about maschine the most: that i can use it at the same time someone else is composing in live.

that's right: 2 people working on a song at the same time, 1 live set, 1 computer

...

hey dude, that's interesting, on which software are you running the master clock ? I use Maschine as a standalone, use its time clock and connect live on it. I use Jack osx to connect the 8 outputs to Live.

i just load maschine as a vst in ableton. then i control all of my work (the maschine part) solely from the maschine interface, while the person driving ableton can do whatever they want, as long as they keep the ableton clock running.

[justin]

ok one question for u maschine users:

is it possible to send the midi out from maschine's internal sequencer to another VST/au instrument?
this would be in real-time, not dragging the midi sequence onto DAW...

thanks,

j

[jake noise]

ok one question for u maschine users:

is it possible to send the midi out from maschine's internal sequencer to another VST/au instrument?
this would be in real-time, not dragging the midi sequence onto DAW...

thanks,

j

Yep this can be done. Personally I run maschine as a standalone then have 16 channels of midi out (one for each pad on 1 group) running into ableton, while using soundflower to pipe all 8 audio outs into audio channels in ableton (using external instruments). Finally I use maschine as the clock master and sync live to maschine. Live essentially acts as a vst host and external effects unit / mixer while i'm initially composing.

The benefits of this is that you can drag and drop midi clips straight out of maschine into ableton and then use session to arrange them once you've programmed them in maschine. You also get the benefits of dummy clips on the audio channels (which can be controlled by maschine when you set it up as a midi controller for live apc style)

[jbone1313]

Yep this can be done. Personally I run maschine as a standalone then have 16 channels of midi out (one for each pad on 1 group) running into ableton, while using soundflower to pipe all 8 audio outs into audio channels in ableton (using external instruments). Finally I use maschine as the clock master and sync live to maschine. Live essentially acts as a vst host and external effects unit / mixer while i'm initially composing.

The benefits of this is that you can drag and drop midi clips straight out of maschine into ableton and then use session to arrange them once you've programmed them in maschine. You also get the benefits of dummy clips on the audio channels (which can be controlled by maschine when you set it up as a midi controller for live apc style)

How do you handle Maschine's drums then? Are you running those 16 channels back to another instance of Maschine? I've fiddled with Maschine's workflow till I'm blue in the face. While Maschine is great standalone, I've never been able to get the workflow of taking my Maschine projects to a DAW for arranging.

[justin]

thanks jake,

ok here's a bit more info to clarify the scenario:

a friend of mine is considering switching from akai mpc to NI mascine -> daw sequencing. in his setup, it would be to run DFH superior (FYI, its a multilayered drum sample plugin) as a VST / AU instrument (in either Live or Logic).

he is considering buying maschine so that he can sequence in there (as with akai mpc) but instead of using maschine's sampler for sounds, he would like to set the midi to go to the DFH superior (he would only need one midi channel). when finished with sequencing, he would transfer the midi data from maschine back to DAW and then bounce... can u confirm we are talking about the same thing?

sounds like u are, but sometimes its difficult to explain this stuff unless ur in front of the box!

thanks again,

j

ok one question for u maschine users:

is it possible to send the midi out from maschine's internal sequencer to another VST/au instrument?
this would be in real-time, not dragging the midi sequence onto DAW...

thanks,

j

Yep this can be done. Personally I run maschine as a standalone then have 16 channels of midi out (one for each pad on 1 group) running into ableton, while using soundflower to pipe all 8 audio outs into audio channels in ableton (using external instruments). Finally I use maschine as the clock master and sync live to maschine. Live essentially acts as a vst host and external effects unit / mixer while i'm initially composing.

The benefits of this is that you can drag and drop midi clips straight out of maschine into ableton and then use session to arrange them once you've programmed them in maschine. You also get the benefits of dummy clips on the audio channels (which can be controlled by maschine when you set it up as a midi controller for live apc style)

[jbone1313]

is it possible to send the midi out from maschine's internal sequencer to another VST/au instrument?
this would be in real-time, not dragging the midi sequence onto DAW..

Yes.

So as long as you do not first create those sequences with Maschine's drum kits. If you do, all the notes are programmed to C3. That's one of my biggest complaints about Mashcine. You can't easily bust-out beats, and then transfer to a DAW. But, for the use case you've described, that should be no problem.

Another PIA is there seems to be some bug in Maschine that prevents sequencing Maschine's Groups from within Ableton--i.e., sending MIDI from Maschine to Ableton and back to Maschine. The reason why you would want to do that is if you are wanting to use Maschine's sounds, but not Maschine's sequencer. You could record the MIDI from Maschine in MIDI control mode, but there are issues there too. Namely, when you try to trigger the Maschine plugin from Maschine in MIDI control mode, the velocity gets messed up. I.e., it seems like the pads are less sensitve. I haven't noticed that problem when triggering other instruments with Maschine as a MIDI controller. There may be some communication problem inside of Maschine when trying to trigger the Maschine plugin with the Maschine controller in MIDI control mode.

he is considering buying maschine so that he can sequence in there (as with akai mpc) but instead of using maschine's sampler for sounds, he would like to set the midi to go to the DFH superior (he would only need one midi channel). when finished with sequencing, he would transfer the midi data from maschine back to DAW and then bounce... can u confirm we are talking about the same thing?

I'm very curious about this. To me, the big value proposition of Maschine is it's immediacy. When one only uses Maschine for it's sequencer, most of the value proposition fades away. Can someone who works that way explain how they reconcile this dissonance?

Combine that problem with what I mention above, and Maschine does not add up for me. If NI were to fix those issues, however, I think Maschine would be much more useful--to me. I recognize that it's completely amazing for other workflows, however.

[starving student]

not sure if this helps but I have no problem sequencing maschine via lives sequencer in vst mode, not in front of maschine now but all you have to do is select an additional midi track in live, send it to maschine and in maschine there's a drop down menu where you select midi batch set up I think it's called, check that box and it works very well.

[jake noise]

thanks jake,

ok here's a bit more info to clarify the scenario:

a friend of mine is considering switching from akai mpc to NI mascine -> daw sequencing. in his setup, it would be to run DFH superior (FYI, its a multilayered drum sample plugin) as a VST / AU instrument (in either Live or Logic).

he is considering buying maschine so that he can sequence in there (as with akai mpc) but instead of using maschine's sampler for sounds, he would like to set the midi to go to the DFH superior (he would only need one midi channel). when finished with sequencing, he would transfer the midi data from maschine back to DAW and then bounce... can u confirm we are talking about the same thing?

sounds like u are, but sometimes its difficult to explain this stuff unless ur in front of the box!

thanks again,

j

Yeah thats what I'm doing, only in my case I tend to use it for synths etc. All you have to do is set the source for a pad to midi out and then pick the channel you want to send midi on (from 1-16). You then enable maschine virtual midi out in the midi preferences and then enable midi in for maschine virtual midi output (select track and sync so that you can sync live to maschine) within live's midi preferences. Then you open up a midi track in live set it to monitor in and then select maschine virtual output and the channel you chose earlier in the midi from drop downs. Finally back on maschine you enable keyboard mode for the pad that you set to midi out. This then gives you the full 128 note range on that midi track going from maschine to live and allows you to use maschines sequencer with all its hands on overdubing recording erasing etc goodness.

Phew hope that makes sense, sorry about the lack of pictures (which I know would help) posting from my phone right now...

How do you handle Maschine's drums then? Are you running those 16 channels back to another instance of Maschine? I've fiddled with Maschine's workflow till I'm blue in the face. While Maschine is great standalone, I've never been able to get the workflow of taking my Maschine projects to a DAW for arranging.

I hope the above makes it clear, but I'm not using these 16 channels for maschines drums, these are 16 channels of midi that I use for sequencing other vst's. With regards to drums I tend to programme these in maschine, but route the audio into ableton on 8 different channels. The first way I do this is I use the external instrument plug in on 8 different tracks with each one taking sound from a different pair of maschines outs (via soundflower). Then what this allows me to do is to drag the pattern as midi (check pattern drag mode as midi and set sound midi batch setup to sounds to midi notes) into live and then when I'm on an empty scene in maschine I can trigger the drums in maschine using the dragged midi clips (enable maschines virtual midi input in maschine and on output in ableton's midi preferences turn on track for maschines virtual input) in ableton. Bear in mind that this only works for drums and samples etc, if you try and do this for a pad where you programmed a pitched progression it won't work (due to the way this works by assigning a midi note to each pad and then creating a clip with a corresponding pattern)

The other way I do this is I have 8 audio channels in live set up to monitor in each of maschine's 8 outputs and then I have pattern drag mode as audio and drag the loops out as audio and arrange them as audio in live.

To be honest each method has its pro's and cons and depending on my mood / the track I'll use either...

[The Carpet Cleaner]

I got a kind of complicated question, I'm going to try to explain myself as clearly as possible :
I'm using Maschine as standalone, connected to live through Jack OSX to route the 8 audio outputs to 8 audio tracks in Live.
Everything's ok, except a weird behavior that I cannot explain. It might be because of Jack OSX, but I prefer to ask here first, cause you guys maybe know the problem :

It seems that my audio channels is Live have an "in-build" Limiter.
If I push a group volume on maschine, lets say the A group, to maximum volume (10.0dB), the volume meter will stop exactly where the track volume fader of the corresponding audio channel is set. And if I activate the record button (arm track), it will stop at 0db even if I push the Live's fader up to 6db. I can definitly hear that it's overdriven, like when there is a limiter on a channel.
If I raise the Live's track volume, then it goest up to 6db. And if I reduce it to let say -12dB, then it will block at -12db.
The only way to not have this problem is obviously to reduce the volume of groups or pads in maschine, but I'm just wondering why Live doesnt give me a clear view of my inputs volume and limit it at 0db.

I've tried Maschine as a plug-in, and used external instruments routed to have the 8 outputs, and there is not this problem, the input volume can go beyond the Live Track volume fader or behond 0db when the track is armed for recording.

So it might be because of Jack OSX, or maybe it's how lives handle audio from external sources (not from plug in...)

I don't know but it's weird.
Any idea ?
tkx

[SubFunk]

i never routing that way audio into live, so i can't really answer, but trying soundflower instead of jack OSX comes to mind.

i used jack OSX years ago a few times, had always trouble, so i never touched it again (even i believe it has improved a lot) soundflower always served me well.

(the rare times i use it)

[The Carpet Cleaner]

Ok, I've just tried with soundflower, and it's funny, there is the same exact behavior, except that instead of limiting at 0db (like with jack OSX), it limits at -1.80dB ...
Weird again !

Any other idea? I'm lost.

Update : I just discovered that actually it's related to the OSX overall volume !

if I maximise the volume of OSX (with F12 key on the keyboard, or in the pane preference), then it limits at 0dB, like Jack OSX.

[jake noise]

Hmmm, think the culprit might be maschine here when it operates as a standalone, when I try the same once I red line maschines output, as in the top right hand I can't get anymore volume out of maschine. Pushing it harder just increases the amount of distortion, which sort of makes sense as I assume maschine will have a maximum output level.

If you want higher output you could always stick a utility on the track in live to boost the signal....

[The Carpet Cleaner]

Well, I don't have the volume indicator in maschine, even in standalone, since I routed all group to ext out 1 to 8, none of them goes to the master channel.
But anyway, I think it's just that the external output are maxed at 0dB and once you try to go above that, there is distortion.
I can see in Live, even if it doesnt go more than 0dB, it gets red so it's pretty obvious, I just reduce the volume of the group in maschine until it's not clipping anymore.
So no big deal finally

And problaby the reason why the ext out with jack or soundflower cannot goes beyond 0db is obvious when you get the technical facts (but I don't :p )

[aikighost]

@ glitchrock - I agree totally with the drum racks thing. I too was relying on them before Maschine. Now I look @ Abletons drum racks as a joke compared to Maschine. Everything is controllable-tweekable-editable with ZERO mapping. God bless you NI. God bless...

If maschine gets the ability to host VSTs I can see myself never using Live and doing everything in Maschine. I think 1.8/2.0 needs to have this functionality.