Looking for stage/live lcd projector backdrop advice...?

[lolalola]

My band are looking to get some visuals on the go - nothing fancy, just some footage we've knocked up in iMovie.
Anyone on here have any advice/tips/suggestions on what kind of projector to go for? I'm running a macbook, so potentially might have Ableton do the work for me, but really don't know much about this stuff...
We're playing small venues, so looking to purchase a projector (does it gots to be lcd? What should I be looking for?)...? Don't want to spend a ton, but, y'know..


Cheers!

[Rabalder]

In relatively small places most projectors will do OK as long as you don't use to much stage light at the same time. If you can watch a film on it, you can use it on stage..
The biggest problem with projectors is the light-guy. They usually drown the image with light unless you punch them in the face a couple of times.

[lolalola]

In relatively small places most projectors will do OK as long as you don't use to much stage light at the same time. If you can watch a film on it, you can use it on stage..
The biggest problem with projectors is the light-guy. They usually drown the image with light unless you punch them in the face a couple of times.

How hard should I punch? Won't that mean I won't get paid? Hmmm.... so that's the main issue, the stage lighting? Any specific projector recommendations? CHeers!!

[briggy]

[razorblade]

Whatever will handle the highest screen resolution with the most lumens that in in your budget.

Most under 1000 bucks only handle xvga, and between 2500 - 4000 lumens. Not really what you would want for stage use, but I assume that is what you were thinking. Cheap Sharp, Sanyo, Canons, Toshiba - all about the same.

When you see stage productions with video projection, they are usually using at least one, and possibly two or three stacked Sony, Panasonic or Barco projectors that run about 20 grand each on a rear projection Da-Lite screen that costs at least a couple of thousand dollars.

[Pitch Black]

BUT... if you say to the lighting tech "We just want a simple dark blue wash on us all night (so we can see our gear), and your job is to go crazy lighting the dance floor and the punters" they'll usually be very happy. Never underestimate the impact of a white kingsized bed sheet gaffa taped to the back wall of a club in the right lighting conditions. Any 2000+ ANSI Lumen projector will look fine in these circumstances.

You learn to grade your images to higher contrast and higher saturation than you would normally, to get the most kick out of the image. Always do your video content grading through a projector, as they have a completely different gamma response to LCD's.

We often give the lighting tech a setlist that says this song has mostly blue video, this one mostly red etc... Its those little touches that can HUGELY improve a video show.

I just bought this projector: http://www.aboutprojectors.com/Epson-EB ... ector.html 16x10 native (1280 x 800) 2500 lumens, roughly $1000 US. Bright as. Very happy.

[Pitch Black]

On the subject, here's a show we did this week at Auckland Museum using a 5k projector and an image masked to fit the pillars and statue.

[outershpongolia]

Absolutely redonkulous pitch black, soooooo sick

[lolalola]

BUT... if you say to the lighting tech "We just want a simple dark blue wash on us all night (so we can see our gear), and your job is to go crazy lighting the dance floor and the punters" they'll usually be very happy. Never underestimate the impact of a white kingsized bed sheet gaffa taped to the back wall of a club in the right lighting conditions. Any 2000+ ANSI Lumen projector will look fine in these circumstances.

We often give the lighting tech a setlist that says this song has mostly blue video, this one mostly red etc... Its those little touches that can HUGELY improve a video show.

I just bought this projector: http://www.aboutprojectors.com/Epson-EB ... ector.html 16x10 native (1280 x 800) 2500 lumens, roughly $1000 US. Bright as. Very happy.

Pitch Black - that stuff is amazing looking! Just what we were looking for... When you say 5k, you mean price?

So you think something like the Epson EB W8 would suffice? We're looking to do this kind of thing, but more contrasty - could I pull this off with something like the Epson? :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8fhSKTu ... re=related

[razorblade]

Pitch Black - that stuff is amazing looking! Just what we were looking for... When you say 5k, you mean price?

So you think something like the Epson EB W8 would suffice? We're looking to do this kind of thing, but more contrasty - could I pull this off with something like the Epson? :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8fhSKTu ... re=related

The 5k is referring to the lumens of the projector... The brighter the better.

The Hope Sandoval thing is being rear projected onto the screen,so the image is completely behind them, allowing the stage to remain dark. This is the more typical application of video projection in staging when you want an actual video backdrop.

If you look at Pitchblack's pictures, they are projecting from in front of the stage, so the video image is actually projecting on the performers and the stage.
It's a different technique, and depending on what you are trying to do, it can be very effective. I saw Noveller a few months ago, and that was how she was doing it - essentially blending into the video itself, without any other stage lighting.

Those shots look great, Pitchblack - awesome space to perform in.

[Pitch Black]

Thanx for the comments guys!

Looking at that Hope Sandoval video, that is rear-projection as razorblabe pointed out. You can see from a flash-photography moment that the screen they're using is nothing too fancy - probably just a sheet IMHO:



"Rear-pro" (jection) depends on a lot more factors than front-pro to pull off successfully. You need to have adequate space behind the screen for the projector throw - think of all the venues you play in, and/or want to play in... how many have a wall at the back of the stage - will this be possible?

Your average consumer/business/home theatre projector has a lens ratio of about 1.8 to 2.1 meaning that to get a 10 foot wide image your projector will need to be 18-21 feet from the screen. This makes it harder to do rear-pro. A wide-angle (sometimes called short-throw) projector is often needed for this type of installation. These typically have a lens ratio of 0.7 meaning to get a 10 foot wide image the projector needs to be 7 feet from the screen.

Here's a short-throw projector with an 0.72 lens ratio:
http://www.optoma.co.uk/projectordetail ... PC=EW533ST

Short-throw projectors usually don't have a zoom lens either. To make the projected image bigger or smaller you have to move the projector in and out - something to think about.

Again, rear-pro is do-able, but you need to have MUCH more control over your venue and lighting conditions, and as razorblade said, typically you need a more powerful projector to punch through the screen. Real rear-pro screens are expensive, you can use a sheet (or that stretchy stuff beloved of Trance parties) but the material will cut down a significant amount of light. You said you wanted to do something more contrast-y... this low contrast is exactly what you get when you use a sheet for rear-pro. Another disadvantage is the tendency to develop a hot spot, a bright point in the screen created by the high intensity light from the projector.

I don't mean to sound too negative!!! If you absolutely must do rear-pro, read up as much as you can on what it takes to pull off well - it's a LOT harder than front-pro.

Hope this helps!

[chris vine]

Thanks for the info Pitch + Razorblade,

Have been researching a bit on video recently and came across this:

http://hcgilje.wordpress.com/resources/ ... ion-tools/

an app written by a video artist that projects different sources - configurable surfaces etc....

he has done some nice stuff, looking at his vids.

[lolalola]

Guys, you've been great here! I'm going for the front projection plan, as that seems easier to pull off...
If anyone has any specific projector models to look for, feel free to let me know

[Pitch Black]

Well, of course I'd recommend the one I just bought.. Assuming you go for a 2.5k lumens or greater model that does either VGA (4x3) or XVGA (16x10) natively, the main thing to consider is how flexible is the lens (zoom range) - this will determine how much flexibility you have in mounting positions. Most manufacturers have a distance calculator online for each model, so you can check the range of throw-distance vs image-size the projector will do.

If you end up looking at two models, one of which has more lumens, but less resolution and the other has less lumens but greater resolution, I would choose the brighter model over the higher-res model. For live video, you're never up that close to the screen anyway, and in fact it's often lower-res/high contrast imagery that has the most impact in a gig situation. (Many VJs run ridiculously small sized video files (like 400X300) as a trade-off for speed of triggering and VJ-app processing.)

You might also want to check how much keystone-correction the projector will allow [correcting for projector tilt]... most do around +/- 40 degrees, but some models only correct for around 15 degrees. You might like to check if it has an HDMI input, which as well as allowing to connect Xbox/playstation/Blu-ray etc, can also be used with a DVI-HDMI adaptor from your computer's video card for an all-digital (and therefore sharper) video signal.

But given that 2.5k lumens is probably your baseline luminance on a budget, the biggest issue is the zoom range.