www.native-instruments.com

[sporkles]

Sexy time.

[phil909]

why do all these big dj controllers look like children's toys?

i usually like NI hardware - maschine and the x1 look good, this just looks like everything else - especially the new denon.
http://www.denondj.com/DN-MC6000-P125.aspx

all of these suffer from the same issues - they're too small, overly complicated, crappy jog wheels and there's not enough room between the dials.
i guess they're aimed at kids / bedroom djs.

[3phase]

why do all these big dj controllers look like children's toys?

i usually like NI hardware - maschine and the x1 look good, this just looks like everything else - especially the new denon.
http://www.denondj.com/DN-MC6000-P125.aspx

all of these suffer from the same issues - they're too small, overly complicated, crappy jog wheels and there's not enough room between the dials.
i guess they're aimed at kids / bedroom djs.

i would think its target audience orientated design..

beside..that thing is much to huge... i allready hate that dj´s eat up all the space on stage with theire new toys...

[3dot...]

that flight-case looks sweet though..
can you get one without the 'traktor' graphics ?
who makes those boxes for them ?

[Migra]

Saweeeeeeeeeeeeet!!!! want one!!!!!

[sporkles]

why do all these big dj controllers look like children's toys?
all of these suffer from the same issues - they're too small, overly complicated, crappy jog wheels and there's not enough room between the dials.
i guess they're aimed at kids / bedroom djs.

Yeah, just like Traktor itself is for wannabes who can't beatmatch on proper turntables, and Live, which is for kids who pretend to be real musicians in their bedroom. There's always someone who has to get overly defensive when something like this pops up to make things easier and more accessible — things that are supplere to be really esoteric and out og reach.

[phil909]

how am i being overly defensive sporkles?
what do you think i'm trying to defend?

i simply make a comment about the aesthetics of dj controllers, based on my opinion - it's just as valid to have a different view to you.
i don't like the way they look in general and i think they're too small. what don't you understand?

why do you feel the need to start spouting off about beatmatching and dj software?
i'm not having a go at digital djing - i own both traktor and ableton.



read my post properly, respect the fact that not everyone likes everything that you like and don't jump to conclusions.
dick.

[sporkles]

how am i being overly defensive sporkles?
dick.

Well, dick:

i guess they're aimed at kids / bedroom djs.

How can I interpret this as anything but a defensive statement? The "it's for kids" card is always played when a product
opens up possibilities for beginners who neither have the desire nor the funds to do things the traditional way. Reason users
have been hearing the same thing through the years, and yet a lot of brilliant music has come and continues to come out of Reason.
OK, so you're a Traktor and Live user; fair game. But I still don't see how

why do all these big dj controllers look like children's toys?

and

they're too small, overly complicated, crappy jog wheels and there's not enough room between the dials.
i guess they're aimed at kids / bedroom djs.

make any sense.
1) So they're both big and too small? I don't know how that makes sense, but they're supposed to be portable, so you can't
expect to be able to tweak the knobs wearing oven mitts.
2) How is the Traktor controller overly complicated when all the key functions are laid out as nicely as they are here?
A traditional mixer section, filters, and all the controls you need to free yourself from the mouse and keyboard.
3) How can you say that the jog wheels are crappy without even having touched them, and from whose perspective would they
be "crappy"? What does "crappy" imply in this case?

While I'm still not sure whether or not you think the controller is too big or too small, I can actually agree on the
former; I like the idea of having all my gear in a backpack; but then again, the new NI controller really has everything
(including mixer and audio interface) in one box,and I, for one, find that totally awesome.

[beats me]

I think old school DJs and maybe even some aspiring new DJs have some mental hang-ups over letting go of the decades old size and setup of 2 vinyl decks and a mixer, essentially form over function in regards to new technology. DJ software has proven everything that was traditionally done by DJs and more can all fit on a laptop screen but the issue of controlling it seems to still be an issue with some feeling they can't step out of the comfort zone of a now unnecessarily large footprint and really I think it is mostly a hang-up over what they feel they look like on stage. If DJs hid behind a curtain like the Wizard of Oz I think they would embrace this a lot easier.

[starving student]

I think old school DJs and maybe even some aspiring new DJs have some mental hang-ups over letting go of the decades old size and setup of 2 vinyl decks and a mixer, essentially form over function in regards to new technology. DJ software has proven everything that was traditionally done by DJs and more can all fit on a laptop screen but the issue of controlling it seems to still be an issue with some feeling they can't step out of the comfort zone of a now unnecessarily large footprint and really I think it is mostly a hang-up over what they feel they look like on stage. If DJs hid behind a curtain like the Wizard of Oz I think they would embrace this a lot easier.

I don't think so beats there's a huge fator being overlooked here, why don't we think all guitarist should use guitars the size of baby taylors, why don't all drummers use those drumsets the size of those found at toys'r' us, it's all aboutwork flow, lets use that dj shifty video again as an example, I think you called him goofy but maybe if he had more of a practical instrument to use he wouldn't look so goofy, more importantly and much more important that how one looks is how one feels.
He doesn't look like he can loosen up and play that thing the way anyone would want to play their chosen instrument, it looks like he's trapped in a box and trying to get out.

a traditional dj setup is large enough for you to be flexible, reach here and there in a fluid movement, it's way diff than trying to control your emotions, craft, and performance into several inches. here's an example I can create an echo on a turntable of what ever I'm playing just with my hand movements but with one of these type controllers it's much more difficult to do so, you might say well yeah but traktor or whatever has echo effect, thats cool but I'd rather do it with my hands and faders just like I'd rather use a wah pedal instead of an automatic wah effect. these types of concerns have a huge effect on the music making and performing process imhO, if anything it's more of the controller type djs worried about how they look than the traditional ones, and how can you grow with those type of controllers by growth I mean like growth that you get from an instrument. I guess I feel like these kind of things are great controllers but very bad instruments

[IP]

looks cool ... maybe a vci300+vfx1 combo killer? who knows!

it still seems to be much heavier and bigger.

[phil909]

how am i being overly defensive sporkles?
dick.

Well, dick:

i guess they're aimed at kids / bedroom djs.

How can I interpret this as anything but a defensive statement? The "it's for kids" card is always played when a product
opens up possibilities for beginners who neither have the desire nor the funds to do things the traditional way. Reason users
have been hearing the same thing through the years, and yet a lot of brilliant music has come and continues to come out of Reason.
OK, so you're a Traktor and Live user; fair game. But I still don't see how

why do all these big dj controllers look like children's toys?

and

they're too small, overly complicated, crappy jog wheels and there's not enough room between the dials.
i guess they're aimed at kids / bedroom djs.

make any sense.
1) So they're both big and too small? I don't know how that makes sense, but they're supposed to be portable, so you can't
expect to be able to tweak the knobs wearing oven mitts.
2) How is the Traktor controller overly complicated when all the key functions are laid out as nicely as they are here?
A traditional mixer section, filters, and all the controls you need to free yourself from the mouse and keyboard.
3) How can you say that the jog wheels are crappy without even having touched them, and from whose perspective would they
be "crappy"? What does "crappy" imply in this case?

While I'm still not sure whether or not you think the controller is too big or too small, I can actually agree on the
former; I like the idea of having all my gear in a backpack; but then again, the new NI controller really has everything
(including mixer and audio interface) in one box,and I, for one, find that totally awesome.

1. apologies for the confusion. by 'big dj controller' i mean one of the larger, all-in-one dj controllers on the market. 2 decks, mixer etc in one unit.
(a small controller would be a faderfox etc). i use 'big' to differentiate between the two.

when i talk about them being too small, i mean the controls are all tiny and too close together - giving the impression of a children's toy.
the industry standards for the last 20 odd years are the technics turntable and the pioneer cdj player. both these share a similar formula to their success.
big controls, well spaced apart. simple and intuitive to operate - use one and you can pick up the basics on the other in 5 minutes.
or in other words, dj & club friendly. i just don't look at the NI or denon controller and think the same.

i don't think anyone has gotten close to making a pro looking dj software controller.
for example, when pioneer originally released the cdj1000 a decade ago, they absolutely nailed it. the size, the form, the feel, the layout.
this provided familiarity which then allowed the leap to allow 90% of djs to stop playing vinyl and switch to cds.

i just don't see this NI controller (or any of the others) being a game changer, which i think is a shame - especially with NI's recent history (maschine - which is a game changer).

2. my original comments aren't just specific to the NI controller, it does look better than the denon (which looks like nightmare to operate when pissed)
but i think it's still too busy.

3. i think they look small & cheap, hence crappy. it doesn't matter if they've got a nice feel, they don't look big enough.

[beats me]

[1. apologies for the confusion. by 'big dj controller' i mean one of the larger, all-in-one dj controllers on the market. 2 decks, mixer etc in one unit.
(a small controller would be a faderfox etc). i use 'big' to differentiate between the two.

when i talk about them being too small, i mean the controls are all tiny and too close together - giving the impression of a children's toy.
the industry standards for the last 20 odd years are the technics turntable and the pioneer cdj player. both these share a similar formula to their success.
big controls, well spaced apart. simple and intuitive to operate - use one and you can pick up the basics on the other in 5 minutes.
or in other words, dj & club friendly. i just don't look at the NI or denon controller and think the same.

i don't think anyone has gotten close to making a pro looking dj software controller.
for example, when pioneer originally released the cdj1000 a decade ago, they absolutely nailed it. the size, the form, the feel, the layout.
this provided familiarity which then allowed the leap to allow 90% of djs to stop playing vinyl and switch to cds.

i just don't see this NI controller (or any of the others) being a game changer, which i think is a shame - especially with NI's recent history (maschine - which is a game changer).

2. my original comments aren't just specific to the NI controller, it does look better than the denon (which looks like nightmare to operate when pissed)
but i think it's still too busy.

3. i think they look small & cheap, hence crappy. it doesn't matter if they've got a nice feel, they don't look big enough.

A software controller that equals the footprint of 2 vinyl decks and a DJ mixer would be overkill, obnoxious, and unnecessary. There's also the fact that a lot of venues have permanent setups like these that allow for little to no room for you hooking up something of your own with the same dimensions. Also to be considered is unlike live band nights where it's acceptable to stop the music for 20 minutes or so while the last band tears down and the new band sets up, this isn't possible because DJ nights want the music to play continuously all night.

I agree with starving student on some of his points about space and movement in performance, but again, that is old world. Most DJs are content to just be blending songs with the cross fader all night and software also allows for other performance options that aren't possible with traditional decks and a mixer.

But yeah, it is kind of offensive to call these things toys simply because they don't match your view or somebody else's of what they think DJ gear should encompass and look like. And we can dance politely around the subject but what it really comes down to is "real DJs wouldn't use that" which is bullshit.

[phil909]

But yeah, it is kind of offensive to call these things toys simply because they don't match your view or somebody else's of what they think DJ gear should encompass and look like. And we can dance politely around the subject but what it really comes down to is "real DJs wouldn't use that" which is bullshit.

i never say that, or infer that they are toys. read the post.

there's a lot of people on here getting very touchy & defensive and jumping to conclusions.
i'm guessing that you're all getting fed up at people saying that you're not proper djs because you use your laptop.
get over it, i'm not having a pop - just don't think these controllers are very good. end of.

[humnumb]

why do all these big dj controllers look like children's toys?

i usually like NI hardware - maschine and the x1 look good, this just looks like everything else - especially the new denon.
http://www.denondj.com/DN-MC6000-P125.aspx

all of these suffer from the same issues - they're too small, overly complicated, crappy jog wheels and there's not enough room between the dials.
i guess they're aimed at kids / bedroom djs.

crappy jog wheels? have you actually used it or are you just talking out of your ass?