Abletons Unprofessional Authorisation system-Online/Offline

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
dum
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Abletons Unprofessional Authorisation system-Online/Offline

Post by dum » Tue Sep 07, 2010 6:25 pm

This thread is about ableton's (unprofessional) authorisation system, so discuss freely on that issue

BUT besides that I would like to know if anyone has tried the offline authorisation mode.
What I want to know is if it's linked to your hardware (i.e. your motherboard) or if it's more-or-less the same as unlocking online which pays absolutely no heed to your hardware config.


Not linking your unlock to your hardware is so inconsiderate it borders on being pure evil.

scenarios on the same machine:
change os ? use another unlock
change hard-drive ? use another unlock
suffer some kind of application/OS error that corrupts the relevant system file and using a clone of your OS isn't an option on the table ? use another unlock
got more than one os on your machine ? use another unlock

Run out of unlocks ? beg for another one
Run out of unlocks after german business hours ? beg for another one tomorrow morning
Run out of unlocks on a saturday ? wait till monday and then beg for another one
Still haven't received a reply to your begging and your deadline fast approaches ? call them when they're in the office and beg them on the phone.

Multiply by two since you can have an active (but not simultaneous) Live installation on two machines.




I use other software that employs a system similar to abletons, but any time I've had to request another auth I got a speedy 'no problem'

If someone tells me they'll ''make an exception'' and grant me an extra unlock, I feel like drop kicking their dalmatian puppy into a blazing furnace.

Ableton, get your finger out of your arse and start linking your copy-protection scheme to the hardware.
Fingers crossed that the offline mode is linked to hardware, but I'm definitely not assuming that.
Last edited by dum on Thu Sep 09, 2010 1:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Pasha wrote:Thanks dum for being so precise.

crofter
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Re: Ableton's Authorisation system - Online V Offline

Post by crofter » Tue Sep 07, 2010 6:43 pm

I've always found ableton to be generous with their unlocks, the alternative is a dongle, as I use Cubase as well I have no problem with that either.
Core2 quad q660, 4gig ram, Win 7 home premium SP1.
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dum
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Re: Ableton's Authorisation system - Online V Offline

Post by dum » Tue Sep 07, 2010 6:47 pm

define generous..



and beyond that, I'm just saying it's fucking stupid not to link the unlock to the hardware. Generous or not, they shouldn't be so easily wasted. I work to deadlines by the way.

Hobbyists are free to offer their opinions, but please state clearly if that's what you are.
Pasha wrote:Thanks dum for being so precise.

mihai
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Re: Ableton's Authorisation system - Online V Offline

Post by mihai » Thu Sep 09, 2010 6:14 am

i've actually never had authorization issues with ableton live. i'm on v. 7 and i've gone through hdd and os changes on the same computer and never an issue, once it authorized it authorized. of course i've had to authorize after each change but only once and i have done so online.

dum
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Re: Ableton's Authorisation system - Online V Offline

Post by dum » Thu Sep 09, 2010 11:18 am

mihai wrote:i've actually never had authorization issues with ableton live. i'm on v. 7 and i've gone through hdd and os changes on the same computer and never an issue, once it authorized it authorized. of course i've had to authorize after each change but only once and i have done so online.
You haven't had issues because you haven't used up your unlocks yet. If my maths is right you're on your last one now (original install =1, hdd change =1, os change =1). Next time you try and authorise you'll have to do it manually (email request processed by a human being), unless you did the hdd & os change at the same time in which case you've got an unlock left.

You also seem oblivious to the fact that yes, an error/bug/glitch can de-authorise your machine by simply corrupting the relevant system file. You're oblivious to that fact because it hasn't happened to you. That does not mean it's impossible. Asserting the authorisation system is fine because you haven't encountered that bug yourself = not that clever.



Anyways, you don't seem to get it....The piece I highlighted in your quote is what's so utterly stupid. It's a moronic waste of unlocks to make you authorise again and again on the same machine. I use lots of other software that offers me a challenge code unique to my HARDWARE (motherboard/logicboard) and no matter what OS changes I make, or how many times I change my HD, or how many times my HDD gets zapped, it will always offer me the same challenge code so all I need is the original response code to authorise (saved in my email account and in a text file). That's ONE unlock used to cover all those possibilities AND it means I can get up and running again on a saturday afternoon.

WHEN you inevitably have to make a manual authorisation request, you better hope it's during a week day and during german business hours. Even at that, there's no guarantee you'll get it that day, AND they'll be making an 'exception' to grant you that extra unlock. Of course, if you don't have deadlines to meet you might not get why it's such an egregiously inconsiderate system.




BUT, as I said in the original post, their 'offline' mode uses a challenge code/response code system...but what's not clear is if the code is tied to the hardware, or if it's the same as the online mode just processed in a ever so slightly different way.

Also, other devs that use a similar system to Ableton have re-authed me much faster, and with a 'no problem' response. With ableton, they make an 'exception'
Pasha wrote:Thanks dum for being so precise.

crofter
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Re: Ableton's Authorisation system - Online V Offline

Post by crofter » Thu Sep 09, 2010 1:03 pm

As only two people have replied to this thread it's obviously a non issue as far as the wider ableton community is concerned.
Core2 quad q660, 4gig ram, Win 7 home premium SP1.
P4 2.8 ghz, Gigabyte GA- 81E2004P, 1.5 gig ram,XP Home, SP3.
dual core pentium laptop 2 gig ram Win 8.
MOTU 8Pre,Tascam FW-1804,Zoom R16, Ableton live 8.4
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dum
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Re: Ableton's Authorisation system - Online V Offline

Post by dum » Thu Sep 09, 2010 1:11 pm

crofter wrote:As only two people have replied to this thread it's obviously a non issue as far as the wider ableton community is concerned.
If you say so.



There's been several threads created about the issue throughout the years, ranging from general annoyance to seething rage. Some guy even advertised his licenses for sale here, after ranting about it on the board.

But at any rate it's CLEARLY an issue folks don't get until they experience it for themselves. I'd speculate that alot of the posters on the board here don't have deadlines to adhere to, as well as being little more than hobbyists. Fair enough. At least they're not in here arguing AGAINST the complaint, unlike you. Takes a special kind of douche to argue against sensible criticisms. I'm guessing the only deadline you ever encounter is closing time for the off-license, or signing on at the dole office.
Pasha wrote:Thanks dum for being so precise.

ShelLuser
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Re: Ableton's Authorisation system - Online V Offline

Post by ShelLuser » Thu Sep 09, 2010 5:26 pm

dum wrote:But at any rate it's CLEARLY an issue folks don't get until they experience it for themselves. I'd speculate that alot of the posters on the board here don't have deadlines to adhere to, as well as being little more than hobbyists.
Or they were simply better prepared than you anticipated.

This whole thread doesn't look like much of a discussion to me, more like a rant.
With kind regards,

Peter

Using the 'Power' Trio: Live 10 Suite (+ Push & Max 8 ), Reason 10 and Maschine Mk3 (+ the ultimate Komplete 12).
Blog: SynthFan (under heavy construction!)

mihai
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Re: Abletons Unprofessional Authorisation system-Online/Offline

Post by mihai » Thu Sep 09, 2010 5:36 pm

:lol:

i'm sure you've got your reasons, dum. all i'm saying is that i haven't run into issues thus far. either way i always assumed that the software scans for something more consistent than an hdd, like the motherboard id no. or something, in order to render itself as "used" but of course i could be completely off. hope whatever problems you're having end up working out fast though. best of luck.

fisto
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Re: Abletons Unprofessional Authorisation system-Online/Offline

Post by fisto » Thu Sep 09, 2010 5:42 pm

Well, its clearly a fault from ableton's side. I've used up all my autz on one machine, because i changed some settings and new hardware. It's funnyto start up your computer after some tuning/upgrading and find your copy of of live in demO-mode. Really really bad!
It would also be in the abes interest to tie the aut-system to the motherboard, to keep better control of authorizations.
Just my add.
Cheers

cotdagoo
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Re: Abletons Unprofessional Authorisation system-Online/Offline

Post by cotdagoo » Thu Sep 09, 2010 5:54 pm

personally haven't had any 'real' issues, but have had a few days of wondering/worrying for sure..

luckily i've scheduled many, or at least most of my big computer changes during times i don't have deadlines or need to get something accomplished in live. however there's always the issues you can't schedule - and i think that's a big part about what this thread is attempting to address.

i've had both a onboard video card die, had a pci network card die at random and it's been a pretty simple process to remedy as i've got spare parts from over the years. but again, this is only part of the problem when you take ableton live into account.

i can replace my faulty hardware, disable broken onboard devices through the bios and have a perfectly working system. it's only when i launch ableton that it becomes an issue, and i have to take the time to either get an internet connection established (which i really don't want on my main DAW) or email support and ask for another unlock if i've met my limit, which again leaves the easiest method for authorization being an internet connection after i've got an additional unlock.

none of my plugins ever require this, nor any other software installed on my system unless the registry entries which stored the registration data were removed/corrupted for some reason (hasn't happened yet).

like i said, i haven't had any 'real' issues.. but at the same time i can clearly see the problems at hand for someone who is working on a deadline or time sensitive material and has something horrible happen where they have to replace a piece of hardware at an inopportune time for ableton to supply extra unlocks - (ie: over the weekend).

just seems odd when you never run into this sort of problem with any other software. would make a lot more sense (to me at least) to use something like a hardware id that's tied to the motherboard (something that most users won't swap out or replace in their computer's lifetime). then if your hardware does crap out, you don't have to spend the time explaining your situation, and asking for another unlock.

edit: if you haven't ever had to ask for more unlocks/authorizations imo your opinion is worthless on this subject.
Last edited by cotdagoo on Thu Sep 09, 2010 7:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Parametex
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Re: Abletons Unprofessional Authorisation system-Online/Offline

Post by Parametex » Thu Sep 09, 2010 5:56 pm

I like the way Abes handles the copy-scheme ... Word!

Tone Deft
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Re: Abletons Unprofessional Authorisation system-Online/Offline

Post by Tone Deft » Thu Sep 09, 2010 7:42 pm

:lol: another Pros only thread.

Best of luck with the rant! :D. Kill Kill Kill!!!
oddstep wrote:I agree with all of this. I'm just bored of writing "its music, just listen and trust your judgement"

crofter
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Re: Abletons Unprofessional Authorisation system-Online/Offline

Post by crofter » Thu Sep 09, 2010 7:45 pm

Tone Deft wrote::lol: another Pros only thread.

Best of luck with the rant! :D. Kill Kill Kill!!!
A real pro would have a backup system so it wouldn't be a problem, I have and I'm only a fucking amateur.
Core2 quad q660, 4gig ram, Win 7 home premium SP1.
P4 2.8 ghz, Gigabyte GA- 81E2004P, 1.5 gig ram,XP Home, SP3.
dual core pentium laptop 2 gig ram Win 8.
MOTU 8Pre,Tascam FW-1804,Zoom R16, Ableton live 8.4
Cubase 7

Tone Deft
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Re: Abletons Unprofessional Authorisation system-Online/Offline

Post by Tone Deft » Thu Sep 09, 2010 7:49 pm

crofter wrote:
Tone Deft wrote::lol: another Pros only thread.

Best of luck with the rant! :D. Kill Kill Kill!!!
A real pro would have a backup system so it wouldn't be a problem, I have and I'm only a fucking amateur.
dum's not gonna like that. 8O
oddstep wrote:I agree with all of this. I'm just bored of writing "its music, just listen and trust your judgement"

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