Fix the sync issues now !! yes or no ?

[Tone Deft]

and Ableton wants to hear about problems from users. the only point of contention is that we discuss those problems in a civil manner.

I brought a new computer home last night. I hope my good luck with sync continues.

[Digital_Damage]

Get over it and go use some other DAW if it is such an issue for you. I tired of seeing thread after thread of your crying. Bumping your OWN thread every three days because there is no response and to keep it on the front page does nothing to help your cause. I'm sure they read it and if not contact them diectly.

And to respond to your griping about the integration with Serato; I for one embrace innovation. Bridging the gap between DJ's and producers is a tremendous step for those true modern entertainers, it provides a flexibility that no other products can provide and I applaud Ableton’s forward thinking. The days of 80's style keyboardist is over. This is self evident with products like the APC40, launchpad and the like becoming more prominent on stage.

[broc]

The poll reveals that only a tiny minority of users is interested in conventional MIDI sync issues.
(100 of 50000 is 0.2%)

So for getting Ableton's attention, bumping seems counter-productive since it just confirms this fact again and again.

[fx23]

one of will always be pb anyway with midi is that it's windows that handle midi,
and considers it as a low priority thread , wich make syncs is getting weird accordind to cpu load.(now how stupid is that?)
no software manufacturer can ever get around this.

it's time for osc, midi2 or unified better protocol too.

[broc]

t's time for osc, midi2 or unified better protocol too.

+1

Perhaps a variant of Ableton Transport Control (ATC) for the Bridge could also be used to sync 2 instances of Live.

[andydes]

Yeah, unlike 3phase, I believe Ableton has probabled done as much as they can to get sync via midi clock to work as well as they can using existing midi protocols on today's computers.

But if this isn't enough to get reliable sync with hardware or another computer, then it has to be time to look at other alternatives. OSC, some form of network syncing, an audio sync (still no realtime beat detection tool- which I'm sure the DJs would love as well), etc.

Obviously for hardware, you would need to use midi, so how about dedicated MIDI box (made by one of their partners) that interfaces directly with ableton and bypassed the OS midi system completely.

I can't believe there isn't a better way than using the standard midi system. How can it posibly be easier to adjust the tempos manually to get in time?

[broc]

Obviously for hardware, you would need to use midi, so how about dedicated MIDI box (made by one of their partners) that interfaces directly with ableton and bypassed the OS midi system completely.

As mentioned earlier, in principle such solution exists already

http://www.innerclocksystems.com/New%20 ... -Lock.html

[3phase]

Obviously for hardware, you would need to use midi, so how about dedicated MIDI box (made by one of their partners) that interfaces directly with ableton and bypassed the OS midi system completely.

As mentioned earlier, in principle such solution exists already

http://www.innerclocksystems.com/New%20 ... -Lock.html

hey guys..its just midi syncing we dont need expensiv innerclock stuff that is rather half developed than really good..

We just need to start with just a working midisyncing.. just standard midi sync..

on the send side it should be able to send timecode and clock best simultaniouslly like we have it in other DAW´s

The relatime commands and especially the clock bits have to get priority so that other midi data dont interfear..

ON the input siide.. and this is the most improtant thing they should fix first, we only need some smarter programmning or a more musical agende behind the algorythm..

otheres can do it..why isnt ableton able to do it?

[andydes]

hey guys..its just midi syncing we dont need expensiv innerclock stuff that is rather half developed than really good..

We just need to start with just a working midisyncing.. just standard midi sync..

on the send side it should be able to send timecode and clock best simultaniouslly like we have it in other DAW´s

The relatime commands and especially the clock bits have to get priority so that other midi data dont interfear..

ON the input siide.. and this is the most improtant thing they should fix first, we only need some smarter programmning or a more musical agende behind the algorythm..

otheres can do it..why isnt ableton able to do it?

Yeah, of course they need to get midi clock as good as possible. You seem to suggest that it's easy and they just don't care. I find that slightly hard to believe. More likely it's a difficult fix and they don't care quite enough. Although you did say earlier that it's improved recently, so I hope they are putting some serious work into it.

All I was trying to say is if (as they claim) the Midi clock is as good as can be and it's still not enough, they should be looking at other options as it's an important subject.

Not sending MTC is a little strange, they must feel it doesn't work with their overall design for the program (elastic audio, realtime and all that). Agreed, they should add this straight away.

[3phase]

Yeah, of course they need to get midi clock as good as possible. You seem to suggest that it's easy and they just don't care. I find that slightly hard to believe. More likely it's a difficult fix and they don't care quite enough. Although you did say earlier that it's improved recently, so I hope they are putting some serious work into it.

All I was trying to say is if (as they claim) the Midi clock is as good as can be and it's still not enough, they should be looking at other options as it's an important subject.

other osc based options or cue point based syncing of free running sequencers defently would be a nice thing.. but i clearly doubt that ableton has done theire homework. In many regards it looks a bit that they don have the best coders on the planet..

and the general conceptional weekness in many details also dont draws the brightets picture regarding theire abilitys.

when you try to sync natives reaktor to a midi clock you will see that it has a much higher stanility than ableton live as clockslave..

as discussed in this thread it seems a bit strange that life cant adjust to the tempo of an incoming clock... i dont say that a fix is easy.but defently possible.. the algorythm abelton is using to sync to clock is defently one of the primitiv kind..

they just dont bother to improove that. There is no order from the management to work on the problem as the support guy has told in the thread here.

[Machinesworking]

No, it wasn't a known issue and it's still unclear what it was. I'm suspecting the Logitech driver as it also caused these CoreMIDI problems that you mentioned. Btw, I was asking you to send me some details about this Logitech driver, because I'm still trying to reproduce this here. Could you please do this? Thanks.

hmm? my last email must've been lost? Basically it's a VX Revolution mouse, their laptop one, the driver before the recent update that came out a couple months ago. Like I said in the related thread, I would love it to be some user error thing, as that's easiest to solve really. Thing is this:

LIVE was the only DAW affected ?
obviously user error

Again, with three DAWs I'm in a unique position. With an interest in sync with Live it's even more unique etc. I'm still baffled as to why Live was affected, and it is a total mystery why Live was the only DAW affected, makes no sense really. I am more inclined to blame Automap, because Automap was set up in Live, but not in DP and Logic, but like I said it's all conjecture at this point.

[Machinesworking]

@[nis] I'm not sure how hard this would be to do, but it's possible maybe to get copies of the old Logitech and Automap drivers and test if either was the culprit?
I'm playing a show on the 7th with a new drummer, so all kinds of other programming issues are coming up, but I'll look into it.
The other Major change is Leopard to Snow Leopard, beyond that Live is 7.0.18. No new hardware so it's one of the three, and Snow Leopard is the least likely IMO.

[edit] I sent an email to Logitech, as they only have the latest driver on their website.

Novation have a copy of the earlier Automap, from April at least, and the release notes include this:

improved midi data efficiency into Live

Later today I'll uninstall the latest version and see if it's the culprit, I don't recall this version helping? so I'll email them as well for the version out when we were testing this stuff last if this version also syncs with Live decently.

[3phase]

@[nis] I'm not sure how hard this would be to do, but it's possible maybe to get copies of the old Logitech and Automap drivers and test if either was the culprit?
I'm playing a show on the 7th with a new drummer, so all kinds of other programming issues are coming up, but I'll look into it.
The other Major change is Leopard to Snow Leopard, beyond that Live is 7.0.18. No new hardware so it's one of the three, and Snow Leopard is the least likely IMO.

[edit] I sent an email to Logitech, as they only have the latest driver on their website.

Novation have a copy of the earlier Automap, from April at least, and the release notes include this:

improved midi data efficiency into Live

Later today I'll uninstall the latest version and see if it's the culprit, I don't recall this version helping? so I'll email them as well for the version out when we were testing this stuff last if this version also syncs with Live decently.

you really shouldnt deal with this automap crap..its doing funny things.. i dont trust it really...
never had logitech stuff on a mac sofar... but for clock glitches i rather would expect a program that is dealing with the core midi drivers responsible for trouble than stuff in the mouse domain..

i had only short test run with automap and brought the controler back to the shop the next day because the automap was acting funny and without automap the whole controler was dead... i cant remember what kind of glitches caused my reaktion.. but wobble clock well might have been involved.. basically the strange behaviour left with the unsinstall of automap.. So the whole controler had to go..

[[nis]]

@Machinesworking: I'd suspect that one of the drivers had negatively affected CoreMIDI's scheduling of timestamped MIDI data. Live sends clock messages with timestamps. CoreMIDI will usually take care that they are sent out at the right time. Logic doesn't use timestamps for the clock, so they will be sent out immediately, without scheduling. I'm not sure about DP. However, this would be my only explanation why you had such a problem in Live only and as you mentioned that the Logitech driver had already caused problems with the CoreMIDI server, this sounds like a reasonable explanation. If your problem hadn't vanished, I would have tried disabling Live's timestamping in this TeamViewer session that we planned to do. This would at least have narrowed down the problem a bit.

I didn't receive any other email from you, by the way. Dunno what happened to it. Anyway, thanks for the info. I'll make some more tests with Automap as well and will try to get hold of this Logitech thing. Not sure how soon I can do this, though. I already have a couple of MIDI clock tests on my agenda.

Best,
n.

[Machinesworking]

@[nis] I'll see if I can't eliminate either driver as well. Don't have any hope that Logitech will be very quick in supplying an old driver, but you never know?
Thanks, and I do wish I hadn't gotten too busy with personal life issues to resolve this back then. I bought a house with basically no money so I was juggling a lot of things, and integrating the Evolver into Live became a distant third priority.

Interesting about Logic, don't know how DP handles time stamps, but it was the least affected for sure.