Ableton Live 8.2

[davepermen]

interestingly others DO enable sync and it works without a flaw. so it's not broken beyond repair everywhere.

it is a feature not used by most customers. and by those who DO use it, it's a feature that is not BROKEN by most of the users.

so in the end it's a feature that is used by a minority, and broken for a minority of that minority.

ergo it's no problem, that a majority of their customers are affected. ergo, it's not the nr.1 priority. they have bigger problems first.

oh, and, besides live having midi in and midi out, your os does midi in and out, too, and the hardware of choice. and the soundcard driver of choice. that means, besides live, at least 3 other companies/departments PER SYSTEM are involved in stable sync. and as we've learned from maschines-something, they happen to mess up, too (logitech, that time, apparently).

it's never as easy as haters are saying it is.

oh, and using wrong names doesn't show professionalism. interestingly, so far, only you, subfunk and 3phase happen to do that. and maybe dj synchro

[davepermen]

And beside that: peops why do you think is so much bad music (especially techno, minimal,..) out there???????
HA??
Because of Live. Now everyone can make a 4to4-beat with a offbeat-hihat and call it minimal

This thread is getting better and better.

indeed..

[fisto]

@ilya
oh, i did not mean you. i was just speaking generelly. I had this thought a few days earlier, and as the pro/not pro-piont came up, this came to my mind.
But really, i think that it should not be so easy to make music

[[nis]]

because it is basic functionality of every music-program.

Ok, so why does Cubase or Logic not support being a MIDI clock slave then? Please elaborate.

[fisto]

nis: i never tried to sync cubase to something else. But i know that reaper does this. You can choose every foramt to tsync to. Cool ha?
And especially a performance software should be able to do that. Imagine an electronic-band with a live drummer and a dude with Live. The drummer should be able to change the tempo of th slaved live but it is not possible. So where is the performance here?

And this thread is really fun for me

[fisto]

interestingly others DO enable sync and it works without a flaw. so it's not broken beyond repair everywhere.

it is a feature not used by most customers. and by those who DO use it, it's a feature that is not BROKEN by most of the users.

so in the end it's a feature that is used by a minority, and broken for a minority of that minority.

ergo it's no problem, that a majority of their customers are affected. ergo, it's not the nr.1 priority. they have bigger problems first.

oh, and, besides live having midi in and midi out, your os does midi in and out, too, and the hardware of choice. and the soundcard driver of choice. that means, besides live, at least 3 other companies/departments PER SYSTEM are involved in stable sync. and as we've learned from maschines-something, they happen to mess up, too (logitech, that time, apparently).

it's never as easy as haters are saying it is.

oh, and using wrong names doesn't show professionalism. interestingly, so far, only you, subfunk and 3phase happen to do that. and maybe dj synchro

What wrong names, what are you talking about?
Maybe we are more passionate about live and music in general. That might be the reason why we speak out in this tone.
In the beginning I was like in love when i discovered live, i even dreamed about it
But now it just keeps disappointing me, thats the reason for my "bitching", you understand?
and of course some features of that make a program a DAW and not a musical toy.

[hoffman2k]

@3phase: i'm totally with you. The sync-issue should be acknowledged by the Abes and they should also make an official announcement, that this is their next #1 priority.

@the others bitching about 3phase. What the heck guys, if your setup works and you don't need sync, be happy and shut up.
There are still people who need it badly, and to say "just don't use sync, do it with the ears" is so rudiculous.

That is not the point. If you are experiencing this issue too, work with us to try and reproduce it and we'll add to the noise to get it fixed.
I dare you, ask 3phase to post a reproducible scenario.

1) No time for such frivolous matters

2) It can't be reproduced (but happens all the time)

3) He'll remember in which thread Nico from Ableton posted the results of Ableton's internal testing and totally ignore that Nico is running even more tests as we speak

4) He'll teach us the meaning of professionalism by blaming anybody but himself for not getting work done and loosing years of data and time. All the while not having time and being super busy with projects. Project "Groundhog Day" comes to mind.

ALso the amp for only suite-users. What is this about. It's no instrument, has no samples, so why don't give it to all of us, although I really don't need it. It's just another bad move in my opinion.

Its made by a Third Party company. This means that for every copy they sell or give away, they'll have to pay a royalty to that company. Probably a significant chunk of the 99€ Live upgrade. It makes sense to give it to Suite owners, because if we had to buy it too, our suite would be incomplete.

[[nis]]

But really, i think that it should not be so easy to make music

So you would be happy if we raise the price for a Live license to 50000 EUR (which still doesn't even get close to the value of equivalent studio hardware), so that only you can afford making music and those talents who can't afford it are left out of the game?

i never tried to sync cubase to something else.

Yes, because it doesn't support it. Nice that Reaper can do it. How stable is it nowadays under heavy load with controllers attached and all that? Just curious, because in our last sync tests which we made a while ago it wasn't very good either.

[3phase]

because it is basic functionality of every music-program.

Ok, so why does Cubase or Logic not support being a MIDI clock slave then? Please elaborate.

because they are daw´s that assume that they are the clock master of your studio..

therfore theese programs are also able to deal with timecode.. they can be synced propperly and flawless to timecode.. and they are able to send with timecode..

all midi functionality is done by the daw..so they only need clock output..a clock output that is programmed after the midi standard..so no timecode or controler action is getting in the way of a DAW´s clock output..

theese daw´s also refuse to be rewire slaves.. the are intended to be the masters of the studio..

And than Abelton live appeard.. a little loop tool geared towards live shows.. first time.. after opcode studio vision a program that allowed to be clock slaved..

and a "daw" able to be rewire slave..

That was great.. just.. it didndt worked well..so we waited that you get your act together and fullfill the promiss of a tool that is able to be synced or be sync master.. the swiss army knife on stage..

BUt. its 8 years later now.. and we are still waiting..

Live was supposed to be a stage tool..and by turning it into a full featured DAW you have forgotten to fix that initially good plan to allow clock syncing..

Life is ment for life shows..and musicans like to play together..

music is one of the only artforms where multiple cooks actually are beneficial..when the result is more than it single parts..

so syncing between ableton units makes totally sense..

opposite to this "master of the studio" classical DAW aproach.

You cant compete with the main DAW´s.. not really. at least i never see Ableton used as master DAW in pro studios.. at least sofar..

But you can be the best lifetool if you would get back to what you have left undone back in 2002..

have i elaborated enough?

[fisto]

But really, i think that it should not be so easy to make music

So you would be happy if we raise the price for a Live license to 50000 EUR (which still doesn't even get close to the value of equivalent studio hardware), so that only you can afford making music and those talents who can't afford it are left out of the game?

i never tried to sync cubase to something else.

Yes, because it doesn't support it. Nice that Reaper can do it. How stable is it nowadays under heavy load with controllers attached and all that? Just curious, because in our last sync tests which we made a while ago it wasn't very good either.

i did not mean to raise the price. But i think that you agree that some music-knowledge and talent should be required to make music, money of course should not been required. Although live is a pretty expensive program. The big Studio One-version is at 380 €.
You talk about talent when making minimal-techno with Live? Come on, don't make me laugh dude
As it is now, you just need a cracked version of the suite a youtube-minimal-tutorial and go make some minimal and be a dj!! Yeah, that is what the electro-scene needs? another wannybe-hawtin who does exactly what all others are doing. No thanks.
But i think we are getting offtopic here.

[davepermen]

What wrong names, what are you talking about?

this one:

@deeperman: why should it be top priority?

Maybe we are more passionate about live and music in general. That might be the reason why we speak out in this tone.
In the beginning I was like in love when i discovered live, i even dreamed about it
But now it just keeps disappointing me, thats the reason for my "bitching", you understand?
and of course some features of that make a program a DAW and not a musical toy.

problem is, bitching doesn't help. working together does. 3phase bitched a lot and ran away everytime they asked him for help to solve the problem together (see above, hoffman2ks post).

i do understand bitching right after a problem. but for years? without trying to solve somehow together? even while getting offered help? nah.. and yeah, i'm passionate about live and music, too. guess why i try to help people in here with all i can? and try to cool down the heated minds sometimes?

[3phase]

and your refference regarding clock syncing should be other stage tools that do it wright

you compete with hardware drummachines and sequencers here or NI´s Reaktor..

that is the performance a program like live should match.

the other " i sit with my ass in the big studio" daw´s are not the refference here..

it´s not enough for ableton life to be as bad as the other daw´s

because we dont take theese other dwas on stage with us..at least that was he plan..

cubase and logic ..well setup..gives actually pretty good stage sequencers theese days.. you can load songs in the backgroud while they are playing !!!

no need to have theese monster sets at the border of the computers memory ...
its only the pattern orientated session view that keeps life a relevant competitor.. like a monoplist..
but that dont repaiy for sync problems in all directions..
regarding sync live is not the swiss army knife it should be... it is rather the swiss army toothpick..

And that is sad !

[Paradigm X]

I still want ableton to email me when a new version is released !




(sorry for OT)

[pocketcalc]

Anyway, if that makes you happy 3phase, I'm currently spending a lot of time investigating the whole sync topic (once again) and I'm trying to push any improvements as good as possible (as far as priorities go). I cannot say what, how or when we can improve things, but we're on it. I hope this gives you some peace of mind.

Well, I want ableton to be the first standalone software I'll buy (PT LE bundled with mbox doesn't count). I'm really amazed by the workflow, but last night I got kind of frustrated trying to sync laptops running Live 8 (a macbook pro and windows 7 latop). I want to perform live, perfectly synced to my friend's laptop, but that doesn't seem to be simple at all. I'll keep trying workarounds found on this forum, but that should be as easy as plug midi cables, set master, slave and go.

Please, ableton make it happen, I want to be your costumer.

[3phase]

i do understand bitching right after a problem. but for years? without trying to solve somehow together? even while getting offered help? nah.. and yeah, i'm passionate about live and music, too. guess why i try to help people in here with all i can? and try to cool down the heated minds sometimes?

you are allways lieing regarding that issue or you dont know better..

i helped them a lot spend much time in reporting stuff and gave a lot of input regarding possible smarter syncing algos.. usualy one gets payed for such conceptional input..

and i also help them with getting loud regarding the sync issue in the long run..

they are not aware that this little details would make musicans so much happier and would lead them into an age of ableton bands.
In the long run they will benefit from beeing forced to finaly handle the problems.

In the end beeing the best sync tool on the software market is a very valid sales argument..

especially because the others are pretty bad there too..

you cant really shine with surround support, convolution reverbs or amp simulations theese days..


but with propper syncing in all directions you can !!