swing on master

[taras van de voorde]

Hi!

I really miss the swing parameter which was in live 7 and earlier versions on the left upper corner. How can i add a groove on the whole track instead of adding them into clips?

Hope you can help me!

Cheers
taras

[3phase]

it just moved to the groovepool window.. wher it is of cause displaced.. now you need the browser open all the time to see it... however.. you dont need the browser part to be openend very wide to be able to see it...

The old position was defenetly better for stage work.
another one of the dirty little details of L8

[siliconarc]

it just moved to the groovepool window.. wher it is of cause displaced.. The old position was defenetly better for stage work. another one of the dirty little details of L8

heh... "better for stage work"

wtf do you need to see the groove amount for? if you're doing live groove amount tweaking, map it to a knob or whatever, set min/max, tweak, and use your ears.

couldnt resist another sly dig at the abes, eh?

[3phase]

map it to a knob? whish knob?
do i have to cary a bulky controler with me just to set the globaly swing amount?

now how handy is that.

Sorry stage related design works without tricks and workarounds..
Global swing is a primary parameter and belongs on the main screen..all individual groove settings can be hidden


your bozo argumentation applys to tempo and start/stop aswell...

But as giging musicans we want such thing on the main screen without the need to adress controlers




That they hide the global swing amount is actually a sign that they fall in the footsteps of standard DAW´s

Global swing is actually a drummchine parameter and not a daw parameter..

but live is better of in becomming even more of a drummachine than trying to be a standard borimg daw..


its actually the drummachine functionality of live that is also atracting normal musicans that find in the pattern workflow and direct access creativ enhancement also for acoustical work...
but theese guys... even when beeing the majority.. have leaded and forced the development of the techno tools cubase and notator and whatever midi sequencer into the standard daw we know today..

Lifes advantage when they showed up was to be not like the standard daw´s..

and i hope they never become one.. nothing against daw´s functionality.. but beeing good on stage should be the main agenda still.. because beeing good on stage is more demanding designwise..

only the best instruments and user interfaces are good on stage.. in the studio you can use everything

[friend_kami]

i miss it too.
although i do like the groove tingy, but the global should sit in the transport where it belongs, wheres it easy to see, easy to map and easy to set.

[3phase]

i miss it too.
although i do like the groove tingy, but the global should sit in the transport where it belongs, wheres it easy to see, easy to map and easy to set.

+1

yep... they overdid it a bit to get it sorted nicely.. actually it must have made extra work to move it around...
But would have been better to just stay the establihed way.. they probably thought its to genre specivic and therfore should be a secondary check box on a sub page..
In praxis you loose one track when having the browser window just so wide open that you can see it.

its not a big thing.. but was defently nicer before

[friend_kami]

i dont really care about having the groove pool open or not. i open, assign groove, then close it and either use a controller or open again, adjust,t hen close.
the thing is workflow. i know certain people go "so wh at, its just one extra click, thats not too much of your time, is it?", but for me it really is. i spend several weeks microediting tracks, that is time consuming as it is, i dont need another keyboardshortcut+click+keyboardsortcut to do what i could have done with a mousedrag click. surely the groove pool is awesome but id prefer that they improve the workflow, not the other way around. improvement of workflow should always be priority (after a stable product, something they claim to be working on anyways), regardless of new features.

right now have they have taken that you would do with one action, and made it into something that you either have to sacrifice screen estate for, or take 3 actions. live is stapled by its heavy mouse useage already, and uncomfortable keyboard shortcuts, this just made it worse. nice feature, though.

[3phase]

yep..thats the problem with this kind of "DAW" changes..

we see that in many point that ablton lost a bit the track on beeing a stage software.

Or that the musicans they deal with during development are theese modern "everything is preprogrammed..i never sweat" nerdi type..

So they sometimes dont see the difference between primary and secondary moves on stage..

secondary moves are the ones that need an extra thought or hand.. usually you dont have time for secondary moves when it gets dense on stage..

no 2nd thought operations allowed or possible.. the ideal situation for a musican is the zero thought operation...

one thought/touch has to be enough to achive all desired manipulations..


With the aid of many external controlers that works pretty ok in quite a few departments of ableton live.. therefore theire name of being direct and intuitiv.. musicans like that..

But.. all the new features show a strong handwriting that this actually gets abandoned...

Especially the APC/ lunchpad are a nice example for this misery... dedicated for stage action.. but not designed for it..

we have secondary moves all over the place there.. When they would have been designed for stage use you would have done many things differently..


The navigation of the apc for people that use more than 8 tracks.. horrible.. you defently cant use that thing with more than 8 tracks when it gets dense on stage...

the left/right button.. go one step to the side..and than start scroll.. and they like to scroll a bit longer and the scrolling is slow..
what a horrble balistic.. and you can scroll to nowheres land ..where no track or clip has ever been before..

??? wow.. how retard is that..

moving on this kind of matrix one step to the side totaly kills overview.. moving an unspecified amount of scrolling steps ..especially to no wheres land, is even worse..


If this thing would have been designed for stage use.. the single keystroke would move the matrix in steps by 8..

so you allways have an orientation..

the seconddary stroke with holding an extra key would be the scrolling..

Just the other way around..

too abstract? i was on stage with this thing and i dont like to work with primitiv controlers that engage 2 hands to move the grid to track 9-16..

sorry.. i dont understand why one is programming stage tools this way..
They expect you to stay there.. and have nothing to do that to take care about your shiny new APC?
a very modernistic approach.. I would say people that can afford working this way dont realy need a controler because everything is under control allready..

Its pretty sad that the elsewise nice unit has this flaws in the user interface design.
I would say ableton has no rockn rollers in the design team..
Or the ones they had loose infuence.
The whole thing gets a swing in the nerd direction..
I fear that the removal of the swing control from the mainpage is just the beginning.

[Tweaking Knobs]

select all clips , then go to where the instruments ,fx are, there you should have the swing panel , if you select all the clips and add a swing, they will all havew the same swing.


then all you need to do is change the amount of timing for that swing.


got it ?

[3phase]

select all clips , then go to where the instruments ,fx are, there you should have the swing panel , if you select all the clips and add a swing, they will all havew the same swing.


then all you need to do is change the amount of timing for that swing.


got it ?

and you do that on stage while your left hand is playing a line on a keyboard and you have to press the next beat pattern within the next second?

its possible to work with an extra hardware knob for swing amount ... but you dont see the actual value.. you have ears?

that is wright.. its not a big problem.. i rather missed the window as a reminder.. you run the song with heavy swing.. accedently see the swing checkbox and realize..hey man..that was the section that was ment to be without swing for a change.. and .you do a little break and get swing to zero and do it a while without..

not too esential.. al littel thing.. but i miss that window too.

Was defently nicer to have it on main screen.

Defently not worth to make a too big hazzle about it.. but

i think it is worth the effort to point out that there is a certain tendency in the development to get rid of this little convinient factors for stage use.. or to forget to optimize user interaction for stage use.

For me Live is still mainly a stage tool.. I enjoy that it becomes a full featured daw because its stress to work with different daw´s

but the development towards a full featured daw shouldnt lost the focus on beeing a stage software..

A stage software is actually higher developed than a DAw.. because it has to act rather like an instrument than a spreadsheet calculation.

that was lives very strong point from day one..to be more like an instrument.. And they should keep an open eye to make it even stronger as an insrument and not unintentionaly weeken that strength by unnecessary changes.

[twisted-space]

right now have they have taken that you would do with one action, and made it into something that you either have to sacrifice screen estate for, or take 3 actions. live is stapled by its heavy mouse useage already, and uncomfortable keyboard shortcuts, this just made it worse. nice feature, though.

I couldn't agree with you more, and not just in relation to swing.

[friend_kami]

select all clips , then go to where the instruments ,fx are, there you should have the swing panel , if you select all the clips and add a swing, they will all havew the same swing.


then all you need to do is change the amount of timing for that swing.


got it ?

what if you drop a new clip in your set during playback?
rince and repeat?
hardly a workflow improvement, nor viable onstage, is it?

[friend_kami]

A stage software is actually higher developed than a DAw.. because it has to act rather like an instrument than a spreadsheet calculation.

that was lives very strong point from day one..to be more like an instrument.. And they should keep an open eye to make it even stronger as an insrument and not unintentionaly weeken that strength by unnecessary changes.

this.

[taras van de voorde]

OK,

Yeah, this is workflow killing.. in my opinion they better have kept it the old way and added the groovepool as a speacial feature..

But so? I really need to select all clips to add a groove? Cant i just put a swing on the master anymore???

Thnks for your info