Warp full length tracks the easy way - includes movie

supster · Post by **supster** » Sun May 08, 2005 8:33 pm

sickpuppy wrote: load a loop off a sample cd into a clip, where do you think it'll start playing from?

now, as this is the only point where everything will line up exactly in a tune, it's the one point that will guarantee accuracy when warping!

what we are saying is that often a mix betweeen two tracks that "sounds" and "feels' right ...

... is different from the one that you think will be perfect if you line both tracks up with thier respective kicks from the beginning of the swells.

plenty of songs/tracks are not built so that all of your rythmic element are dropping right on the obviious grid markers .. kicks have different amp envelopes .. snares are set behind / ahead of the beat etc etc ..

this is my experience, its based on what i can hear ... again not trying to take issue with your videos they are awesome .. i picked up a couple of neat tricks myself .. however

you have definite bias toward doing everything by sight - this is music though ... what you hear is the final judge and thats often something using just your eyes are going to miss
.

Nev · Post by **Nev** » Mon May 09, 2005 10:01 am

Just adding, the videos are still down, and I would very much like to have a look at them!

Let us know when they are backup, any chance you can make them available for download, so I can study in my own time!

Nev

sickpuppy · Post by **sickpuppy** » Mon May 09, 2005 12:28 pm

ok, I've bought some more bandwidth so they are available again...
I will keep an eye on how much gets downlaoded and if it's too much I'll have to move them.

if you right click and save as you can keep them on your HDD, not sure about Macs...

supster - yes, what you hear is final judgement and I hear all my tracks working perfectly together... the fact that no markers are yellow allows for swing between the beats.

SickPuppy

Nev · Post by **Nev** » Mon May 09, 2005 12:31 pm

Many thanks.

I think the reason I couldn't right click was because the bandwidth limit was reached!

All is good now,
thanks again.
nev

sickpuppy · Post by **sickpuppy** » Mon May 09, 2005 12:32 pm

nev - not a problem, hope they are of use...

djadonis206 · Post by **djadonis206** » Tue May 10, 2005 9:17 pm

supster wrote:great video, nice work ..

couple of things:

3 - you are lining up your markers 'exactly with the visual start of the beat - not the beginning of the peak of the attack..

however (and i made this point in another thread yesterday) ... when you do this with all of your tracks, some of them still dont sound right when you mix them.

this is because the 'meat' of the kick lies near the peak of the attack, not the visual beginning. some kicks 'swell' up ... if you mix a track with a kick like this, against one that has a kick that has a clear, sharp attack ...

they will often sound off, and you will get flamming, and you wont be able to figure out why unless you are aware of this. another reason why its so important to listen

Hey good point - I'm using Chris Cowies technique (with a little twist) recording my records into Pro-Tools then using the "identify Beat" commandto get the tempo - then importing into Ableton at the records tempo - pretty much warps itself

However - I've run into problems where there's a lot of bass around my kicks and when I try and mix them you can hear the kicks aren't snapping togther

- nice sugestion supster - line my marker up as close to the peak as possible

late

A

supster · Post by **supster** » Tue May 10, 2005 9:59 pm

djadonis206 wrote: - nice sugestion supster - line my marker up as close to the peak as possible

ya: sometimes

again the final reference is your ears:

1 - use the methods Chris gave, as well as these excellent videos .. but always warp the track against an unchanging reference (metronome, simple loop) .. then

2 - quick test against a few tracks that you are positive are warped properly

my live user friends and i have discovered that this is the only way to be sure ... otherwise ...

you are feeling a particular track and you pull it into your set, start mixing ... and get a nasty suprise when it sounds 'off' in the mix, even though the markers seem like they are lined up perfectly.

then pray you are pre-listening and have found this out before you turn up the mix in the monitors, or quick pull the mix and try and recover somehow

(often by looping the previous track over and over until you can get another track .. dont panic!! heh)

when we went back and checked why, often it was because of what i am talking about ...
.

blakejarrell · Post by **blakejarrell** » Tue May 10, 2005 10:50 pm

something ive run into, probably wont apply to many people:

i was using acid pro's beatmapper to map my tracks and then rendering them out so they would be perfect when i opened them in ableton and could just name the bpm and bypass any warp markering

BOY WAS I WRONG

this caused a phenomenon that i simply cannot really explain any better than saying it made the beats totally off. try it out its nasty looking

johndoe99 · Post by **johndoe99** » Wed May 11, 2005 4:21 am

blakejarrell--

i started out on beatmapper myself and must say that, after just about 30 minutes worth of twiddling, live's warp function is more accurate, easier, and very much more intuitive. why not just use that instead?

blakejarrell · Post by **blakejarrell** » Wed May 11, 2005 12:03 pm

well johndoe, i am using lives warping exclusively now. i used acid pros beat mapper at first because i am so used to acid pro, its like second nature to me. didnt realize it was creating any problems until i started a mix with them in ableton, heard some beats off, and zoomed in to see that there were glitches all throughout each of the songs i had lined up in acid pro.

djadonis206 · Post by **djadonis206** » Wed May 11, 2005 6:41 pm

"Acid's bad, mmm K - Acid's bad!"

"ok ok marijuana is bad mmm k, marijuanas bad!"

MrSleep · Post by **MrSleep** » Fri May 13, 2005 10:47 am

Dead Link!!!

No Movie

Where else can I get this movie?

sickpuppy · Post by **sickpuppy** » Fri May 13, 2005 12:43 pm

they're back for a few days...

they used a hell of a lot of bandwidth in the two full days they were available, over 5GB!

I'm trying to find another hosting solution before I put the others up, so if anyone has any sensible ideas, bearing in mind the size of the files (70+MB) then please let me know...

EDIT Ooops, up with the wrong name, have renamed them back to the same as the links so you should be able to get them again, sorry about that

/EDIT

Chris J · Post by **Chris J** » Sat May 14, 2005 9:04 pm

sickpuppy wrote: I'm going to use a James Brown tune for my 'bad-tempo warping' movie coz some of his stuff is just awful. might have been a funky drummer but his timing was flippin awful...

I can't believe what I'm reading.
So you think that a constant tempo is the key to a well produced track ?
Man you've got a long way to go !

Yes 99% of electronic music has a constant tempo, and that sure doesn't mean it's funky. I would say the opposite actually. If one day you manage to enter the subtleties of rhythms, you may understand that a regular tempo is lifeless like most electronic music for that very reason.

James Brown's timing was awful ? the JB's or the many names that backed James Brown were the tightest band around.
And he was not a drummer. The funky drummer was Clyde Stublefield, Jabo Stark was another one, and they've been the most sampled drummers.
Breakbeat, House, Trip Hop, Jungle, Drum&Bass all use and abuse some of those 2 guys drum beats.
In Reason rex files you can recognize their beat sampled without permission, and even in the Live library, but they're never credited, never got a penny for being sampled to death. I met Clyde Stublefield, the nicest man, and luckily for him he doesn't mind his beats being sampled without any recognition.

ignorance is bliss

Sinjin · Post by **Sinjin** » Sun May 15, 2005 2:48 am

wow..just watched the vid...cleared up some lingering confusion on my part...im curious as to your logic behind marker movement..i saw multiple parts where i would have thought to move them, but you went elsewhere, and whats more it seemed to work just right...

Warp full length tracks the easy way - includes movie

Re: Warp full length tracks the easy way - includes movie