a 5th loop parameter (for times when you want an intro)

datagroove · Post by **datagroove** » Mon Feb 17, 2003 3:09 am

if we step out of the world of LIVE loops for a second and enter into the world of looped audio before live. Audio files that had loops would play from the beginning and then loop at the loop start and stop points until the audio was told to stop. This is still the case with all samplers on the market. And in most situations the loop Play marker would be BEFORE the loop start and end marker.

I bring this up because i want to have one clip in live that has an intro and then plays the loop section...for instence having a Synth line “intro” before the loop of a Synth is common or another example is a drum intro before the looped drum break- which is very common.

There are many uses of intros in loop-based music. Live is all about looped based music but to achieve a intro in Live you have to have 2 clips –one for the intro and one for the looped segment.. And while performing live if you want this combo clip of intro and lop to occur properly you have to REMBER to let the intro play once and then trigger the looped clip next. I have been doing this- and because of this I now have another feature request->

put a new parameter (as a option checked in the loop pane) that lets you define were the start point is- the key is it would let you move the start point BEFORE the loop start marker- the end result would be a clip that plays through the begining- and when it reaches the start loop marker will just cycle fromthe loop start and end marker.

(I am thinking it best as an option because it would be taking the place of the offset parameter which I still use and love)

datagroove

philcurtis · Post by **philcurtis** » Mon Feb 17, 2003 11:18 pm

yes, I would like this as well.

But if we're making requests, let's dream big: I'd like to have very elaborated looping schemes possible. Like having an intro, going up to a certain section, playing through that section as a loop 3 times, then continuing on to another section and looping that twice, and then going back to the beginning (intro) and doing it all over again. And stopping after 3 times through this.

And having it all be easy enough to see and understand. I have no idea how you could do that and be able to display so that it is clear.

I'd also like to be able to draw volume curves right on the loop, which play back as a kind of automation (like in arrangement view, but in the session/clip info view). And transpositions as well.

And I'd like to be able to save these elaborate schemes as presets for the clips, which can be called back up just as presets can be called for the fx.

What a dream...

PC

datagroove · Post by **datagroove** » Tue Feb 18, 2003 2:27 am

DING DING DING !!! you understand-what I am saying! sweet

I wanted to go over board with my wish as well, but I was keeping it simple-> while were on the subject and you mentioned it already YES- I want automation on clips in the session view.

datagroove

salt · Post by **salt** » Wed Feb 19, 2003 9:41 pm

I like the first idea, nice and simple and easy to implement, no-one gets too confused, and the world gets a whole load more intros. Surely if you wanted to automate volume in your clips, you could do that using fades/gain changed in a sample editor? Leaves live nice and simple and a bit less logic-like.

Orion Edgar
Salt DJs

gaspode · Post by **gaspode** » Sat Feb 22, 2003 3:33 pm

If you guys can implement an intro... why not an outro...

and as a feature request... a setting to say how many times to play the loop piece before playing the outro

philcurtis · Post by **philcurtis** » Fri Mar 07, 2003 5:34 am

salt wrote:Surely if you wanted to automate volume in your clips, you could do that using fades/gain changed in a sample editor? Leaves live nice and simple and a bit less logic-like.

Well, the point is to be able to get more variation out of a single audio file. Why make 10 variations/edits to an audio file and save them as 10 different files, when you could make the variations and save them each as a preset with the file that you can recall quickly and easily? My laptop has limited hard disk space, and I don't want to have to carry a firewire drive. And besides, it's just more elegant and efficient. Those who don't want the complications of new features don't have to use the features.

I'm sure that Ableton can add new features that might seem to complicate things, but would be very desirable to power-users, and yet hide them so that they don't overwhelm new users or users that want a simple program (plus, they'll probably make a stripped-down lite version eventually anyway).

philcurtis

m-laboratories.net · Post by **m-laboratories.net** » Fri Mar 07, 2003 3:00 pm

i think the work-around here is to make your clip with the intro and outtro, and then have three copies of the same clip in the performance view. All clips should be quantized to one bar.

The first clip has the flag and bar placed so that it starts at the intro and stops at the end loop-point. It should be set to "trigger".

The second clip is just the loop. It should be set to "loop"

The third clip starts at the start loop-point and doesn't end until after the outtro. It should be set to "trigger".

When you want the intro to play, you start the first clip. Before it is done the loop, you start the second clip. When you want the outtro to play, you start the third clip and it will play through to the outtro.

I can't think of SPECIFIC way of implementing this as a feature that would work. Why not just use the workaround? I do.

goofrider · Post by **goofrider** » Sat Mar 29, 2003 1:55 pm

Thanks for the workaround m-lab.

Any kind of intro/outro that's closer to a full bar long can be easily achieved using your method of work around, it's those 1-beat or 1/2 beat lead-ins or maybe that nice fade at the end of a looped pad that I want.

However, it doesn't change the fact that Ableton Live begins playing each clip on the downbeats. I think that's the biggest shortcoming of Ableton Live.

So yes, I'd like intro/outro right there within Ableton Live, so the info can be saved along with the audio clip as the default. All we need is just an extra intro/outro markers, just the the offset marker we have now. Adds a couple checkboxes to enable/disable the intro/outro, so they can be disabled without affecting the saved settings.

Intro/Outro points maybe inside or ouside the loop region, I should even be able to place an outro marker in front of an intro marker.

sunless · Post by **sunless** » Sat Mar 29, 2003 5:12 pm

this is a good idea...
i'm getting in a little late, but another product that already has this sort of feature is NI Battery....there is an "FX Loop" editor...where you can set the start point of the loop, set how long the loop is going to be, and set how many times it is going to loop including infinite. 3 simple sliders. and they also have a graphic read-out which shows your waveform in action...you can make some really cool sounds with it...

i don't think it would add too much to the interface of live....down on the waveform editor, you would just need another set or two of "markers" to place in your waveform, and to the left of that, one box to tell how many times to loop it....after the intro, and before the outro.....

thanks.

datagroove · Post by **datagroove** » Wed Apr 02, 2003 12:22 am

There is no workaround for this request- the goal is not to have to pay attention to the need of performing an action to move from the intro to the loop to outtro- how live is setup now it’s impossible to take your mind off that one task unless the clip/audio file is setup to trigger once. I say there is no workaround because many people who want this desired outcome do what you suggested now because that is the ONLY way you can do it in live. That is the limitation I am suggesting gets revamped.

the feature request is simply to have one clip with these options already setup by you then trigger and let it do its thing...., I wish not to have to trigger- wait a bit, trigger when its time, wait a bit, then trigger again,... for this one element or loop it is just too much attention taken away from your live set-

The idea with this suggesting once again is to minimize the need to have most of your time and attention focused on tasks that could otherwise be taken care of if live were optimized for such actions.

datagroove

Agnishvatta · Post by **Agnishvatta** » Wed Apr 09, 2003 3:57 am

Oh no!!! It's really true isn't? I can't have an intro in a clip. Shouldn't we be able to drag the loop offset parameter for this? I swear that they intended for it to be used as such. It would be fine if I could just drag the loop offset marker outside of the loop brackets.

I think I'll have to post this as a bug, because I'm still not convinced yet.

muthafunka · Post by **muthafunka** » Wed Apr 09, 2003 3:26 pm

Agnishvatta...how's Mie-ken this time of year?
nik

Agnishvatta · Post by **Agnishvatta** » Wed Apr 09, 2003 3:50 pm

At the moment it's cold and everyone is sick with serious pollen allergies, except Obaasan and myself. The winter was also rough since we don't have heat here. Those gas heat stoves will kill ya!!!

Other than that all's good.

Tokyo must still be pretty cold about now? I've wanted to go there, but travelling in Japan is takai if you know what I mean. How's the scene there? Are you throwin' down live with Live or what?

Agnishvatta

rpsx · Post by **rpsx** » Fri Apr 11, 2003 12:55 am

i have another suggestion that fits into these. how bout being able to pull the end of the loop point outside of the actual sound sample? say, if i wanted a loop to play, then have 4 beats of silense, then play again, etc. or better yet, just a rest setting that will count before playing loop again.

i second the in and out and loop points, too. still simple, yet still nice.

a 5th loop parameter (for times when you want an intro)

a 5th loop parameter (for times when you want an intro)

loopy looping

Intro... what about an outro?

Re: loopy looping

the workaround

intro/outro

yo