Thinking of switching to Ableton Live from Cakewalk Sonar

[benstat]

Hi,
I'm a long time user of Cakewalk Sonar, but I'm getting a bit fed up with it because it crashes often, and I also find that its interface is a bit cluttered and old fashioned in comparison to some other DAWs. I'm looking at Ableton Live at the moment. Having used the demo version for a day or two, I have a few questions. I'm sure a lot of these have already been asked/answered elsewhere on the forums, so I apologize for that in advance. If anyone can answer one or more of these I'd be very grateful:
1. I can't seem to find a way to draw anything but a straight line in automation envelopes. I want smooth slow/fast fade ins and outs (ie. curves). How do I do that? I've disabled the snap to and hand drawn them, but this isn't accurate enough for me.
2. When I switch to the piano roll view, I want it to be full screen. Any way to make it maximise by default?
3. Generally how often do they release bug fix updates?
4. Generally how often do they release major versions?
5. Is a new major version imminent?
6. Is a 64 bit version coming?
Many thanks!

[Ableton_David]

Hi benstat - to address a couple of your questions:

1. You can make more flexible envelope shapes by inserting more breakpoints. Make sure you have the pencil tool (next to the transport controls) toggled off, and then double click anywhere on an automation line to add your own breakpoints.

2. This is definitely possible. When you're looking at a MIDI clip (where you'll see a piano roll-style sequencer), drag the border of the clip up, so that it fills out the screen. This is now set as the default sizing for your MIDI clips - with every other clip you enter, it will display at this size. You can also easily adjust the width of the notes here.

[Leon Tricker]

Hi, I'm a long time user of Cakewalk Sonar, but I'm getting a bit fed up with it because it crashes often, and I also find that its interface is a bit cluttered and old fashioned in comparison to some other DAWs.

Welcome to the forum. I was in exactly your position a while ago with Sonar, and left it for Live for exactly the same reasons. I've never looked back.

Oh yeah, and if you do find that Live isn't for you, you can sell and transfer your licence to someone else. Unlike Sonar.

[benstat]

Thanks for your replies.

I found another post that makes it clear automation curves are not possible (http://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=106164). Unfortunately that's a deal breaker for me as I use envelopes so often. That is a real shame, I like what I've seen of Live a lot, but I just can't live without automation curves.

Any idea if it's likely to make it into the next version, and if so roughly when?

[dzisign]

we are all waiting for envelope curves (bezier curves mhh) , but i don't find them essential for creating smooth envelopes.

[Ableton_David]

You'd probably enjoy a free 30-day trial license of Live 8 or Suite 8. It runs exactly as it would if you owned it, and should give you a good opportunity to get in to Live. Be sure to check out the lessons that come bundled with Live, and of course continue to use this forum as a resource for further questions.

Download a free trial version here: http://www.ableton.com/downloads

[3phase]

You'd probably enjoy a free 30-day trial license of Live 8 or Suite 8. It runs exactly as it would if you owned it, and should give you a good opportunity to get in to Live. Be sure to check out the lessons that come bundled with Live, and of course continue to use this forum as a resource for further questions.

Download a free trial version here: http://www.ableton.com/downloads

how often one can have such a trial? i feel sometimes attracted to an suite upgrade..maybe if i like amp i might be ready for that now.. i dont know.. i only know that i never will touch safe disabled demos again for a serious testing.
Too much good content is happening on first touch.. you usualy need weeks to get similar results than on a first deep touch..

so.. how many years do i need to pass by to have another trial? Or is it enough to buy a new laptop?
or is the protection cheme harddisk based and i can do another trial when booting from another drive?

[benstat]

You'd probably enjoy a free 30-day trial license of Live 8 or Suite 8. It runs exactly as it would if you owned it, and should give you a good opportunity to get in to Live. Be sure to check out the lessons that come bundled with Live, and of course continue to use this forum as a resource for further questions.

Download a free trial version here: http://www.ableton.com/downloads

Thanks, I already downloaded and installed the demo version the other day.

[benstat]

So if you've created an envelope curve using, say, 5 points. What do you do if you want to stretch/scale the whole curve. For example, what if my 'curve' lasts 2 bars and I want to 'stretch' it to make it last 4 bars? In my example, would I manually have to adjust/move all 5 points, or is there some way to adjust all 5 points at once?

[3phase]

So if you've created an envelope curve using, say, 5 points. What do you do if you want to stretch/scale the whole curve. For example, what if my 'curve' lasts 2 bars and I want to 'stretch' it to make it last 4 bars? In my example, would I manually have to adjust/move all 5 points, or is there some way to adjust all 5 points at once?

you have to do it all by hand.. live is a simple to operate program with simple operations you can do evrything you want but you have to do it all by hand..like searchig for files ion your harddrive and other things..

that cretaes a very direct user program connection..you somehow become one this way.. a much more grounded way of operation than you get with all theese chromed daw´s where you spend your time learning 1000 keycommands and fancy drag tricks instead focus on working with your daw.

[benstat]

So if you've created an envelope curve using, say, 5 points. What do you do if you want to stretch/scale the whole curve. For example, what if my 'curve' lasts 2 bars and I want to 'stretch' it to make it last 4 bars? In my example, would I manually have to adjust/move all 5 points, or is there some way to adjust all 5 points at once?

you have to do it all by hand.. live is a simple to operate program with simple operations you can do evrything you want but you have to do it all by hand..like searchig for files ion your harddrive and other things..

that cretaes a very direct user program connection..you somehow become one this way.. a much more grounded way of operation than you get with all theese chromed daw´s where you spend your time learning 1000 keycommands and fancy drag tricks instead focus on working with your daw.

That's one way of looking at it I suppose. On the other hand, you could look at it this way:
What used to take me 1 second to do in Sonar takes me 20 seconds to do in Live, and the end result isn't as accurate.
Don't get me wrong - if Live could do automation curves, and was 64 bit, I would switch literally right now. I REALLY like the interface and the way it works in general, which is a breath of fresh air. But there are certain things I can't live without. I'll have to wait for the moment. Thanks everyone for your responses. I might see you back here when Live 9 is released!

[3phase]

That's one way of looking at it I suppose. On the other hand, you could look at it this way:
What used to take me 1 second to do in Sonar takes me 20 seconds to do in Live, and the end result isn't as accurate.
Don't get me wrong - if Live could do automation curves, and was 64 bit, I would switch literally right now. I REALLY like the interface and the way it works in general, which is a breath of fresh air. But there are certain things I can't live without. I'll have to wait for the moment. Thanks everyone for your responses. I might see you back here when Live 9 is released!

come on what are 20 seconds? at least you have done the curve yourself.. unique on any channel.. that makes the production sound alive and have the feeling to really have done some work..

imagine.. an artfull fadeout over 64 tracks..and than bang..all in again.. and all done by hand..

imagine how proud you will be when you hear the result after 2 hours of real doing

i am joking..there are some envelope copy functions since a few versions.. you missed the big fun by a few years

with all the automation envelope handling live relay cant compete with the other daw´s.. it has some other advanteges that might compensate for that.. And the probably will improove theire program at one point.. but details get fixed last.

[agent314]

That's one way of looking at it I suppose. On the other hand, you could look at it this way:
What used to take me 1 second to do in Sonar takes me 20 seconds to do in Live, and the end result isn't as accurate.
Don't get me wrong - if Live could do automation curves, and was 64 bit, I would switch literally right now. I REALLY like the interface and the way it works in general, which is a breath of fresh air. But there are certain things I can't live without. I'll have to wait for the moment. Thanks everyone for your responses. I might see you back here when Live 9 is released!

What kind of automation are you talking about?

I am also a former Sonar user, and I find Live and Sonar pretty similar in terms of how their automation schemes work (although actually I have come to prefer Live's to Sonar's, by a lot. I get so much more done, and with less overall tweaking and fine-tuning).

[Akshara]

...

[Angstrom]

Hi benstat - to address a couple of your questions:

1. You can make more flexible envelope shapes by inserting more breakpoints. Make sure you have the pencil tool (next to the transport controls) toggled off, and then double click anywhere on an automation line to add your own breakpoints.

It's worth mentioning that volume fades and crossfades allow smooth curves in a much more simple way, they use a separate system from the automation. Bezier style.
'Ctrl alt f' is the shortcut.