Ableton Live 64-bit, when?

[Tarekith]

I believe that Studio One is 64bit now as well, for OSX and Windows.

[H20nly]

If you want 64 bit because you "need more RAM" then why does Live have to be 64 bit? A 64 bit environment doesn't give Live the option of accessing more RAM... it gives the OS the option of accessing more RAM.

because live 32bit itself can only use up to 4gb of ram. the os of a lot of people is 64bit right now, so live now has to catch up. right now i'm on win7 64bit, 8gb ram. live can at most use 4gb of it, the os uses around 1gb, so the system still has 3gb left. live gets to a limit BEFORE the system actually is at it's limit. if live would be 64bit, it would put all 7 free gb to use.

this makes sense, but my meaning is this... if Live is able to use 4 GB of RAM in a 64 bit OS that we'll say has 6 gigs... then thats 2 gigs for the 0S and all 4 for Live that its capable of using, is it not?... which is at least a gig more RAM than if you had 4 gigs in a 32 bit OS environment. We throw theses numbers around nowadays as if they're small, but a gig of RAM is still a healthy bump. So while waiting for 64 bit Live will of course give the most benefit, a 64 bit OS, available today, is still not an improvement to turn ones nose up at... or am I off base here?



oh and thanks for following on soundcloud Dave. I've been meaning to say that to you and others for a while now. please forgive my silence... its not out of lack of appreciation.
-g

[fishmonkey]

if you are really stuck you can also use the trick of hosting your RAM munching plugs in another host, and piping their audio to Live.

[davepermen]

If you want 64 bit because you "need more RAM" then why does Live have to be 64 bit? A 64 bit environment doesn't give Live the option of accessing more RAM... it gives the OS the option of accessing more RAM.

because live 32bit itself can only use up to 4gb of ram. the os of a lot of people is 64bit right now, so live now has to catch up. right now i'm on win7 64bit, 8gb ram. live can at most use 4gb of it, the os uses around 1gb, so the system still has 3gb left. live gets to a limit BEFORE the system actually is at it's limit. if live would be 64bit, it would put all 7 free gb to use.

this makes sense, but my meaning is this... if Live is able to use 4 GB of RAM in a 64 bit OS that we'll say has 6 gigs... then thats 2 gigs for the 0S and all 4 for Live that its capable of using, is it not?... which is at least a gig more RAM than if you had 4 gigs in a 32 bit OS environment. We throw theses numbers around nowadays as if they're small, but a gig of RAM is still a healthy bump. So while waiting for 64 bit Live will of course give the most benefit, a 64 bit OS, available today, is still not an improvement to turn ones nose up at... or am I off base here?



oh and thanks for following on soundcloud Dave. I've been meaning to say that to you and others for a while now. please forgive my silence... its not out of lack of appreciation.
-g

you're not off base. if one uses mainly 32bit apps, and mostly just one at a time (say, like live), then 6gb of ram is a nice amount for the system. more or less the maximum that one can profit from in this situation.

BUT (and that's now maybe a bit complicated). a 32bit app works with 32bit adresses, and manipulation of them. if something in the math is wrong, it might be a one-off error (often signed-unsigned errors). they lead to one wrong bit at the max. means it suddenly creates a bug at >2gb ram. those bugs are very hard to get by, as they only show up at >2gb ram of usage. and then, they are an instant crash. they can be triggered very sporadically.

so, for code, the 4gb barrier means another thing, too, a 2gb danger-zone. that's why a lot of apps not specifically debugged and checked and verified happen to have crashes when using more than 2gb ram.

and even while live itself seems to work >2gb ram (i don't have vst plugins), some report random crashes WITH plugins. that means, even while live might test for the >2gb bugs, those plugins most likely don't.

so a move to 64bit (with the 32bit extra processes for the vsts) would remove the 2gb danger zone, too.


oh, and, no thanks needed for the soundcloud. always nice to explore other music from people one is somehow in touch with.

[davepermen]

if you are really stuck you can also use the trick of hosting your RAM munching plugs in another host, and piping their audio to Live.

nice idea!

one should develop a simple external-vst-host vst plugin for live a "vst-proxy"

[leedsquietman]

64 bit takes more resources though, so 6GB in 64 bit is pretty much equivalent to 4GB in 32 bit.

If you're planning on running tons of samples and tons of softsynths etc, it's recommended that 6GB is the minimum but you should use more, 8 or 12 GB are recommended if you are running loads of East West or VSL libraries in real time etc.

[davepermen]

takes at most 20% more resourses, so no, 6gb 64bit is not equivalent to 4gb 32bit. and you can't ever use the 4gb in a 32bit os (more like 3.5gb).

so the 4gb (3.5gb) * 1.2 (= +20%) = 4.2gb. so a 4gb 64bit installation is a bit worse than a 4gb-but-not-accessing-all 32bit installation. and no 32bit installation can access all, because part belongs to gpu and other system components.

[congadaddy]

just a thought...but instead of arguing how to free up a gig using the OS; since "Freezing" a track bounces an audio recording of a midi track, which has a tangible benefit for the CPU instead of leaving VST's active... shouldn't there be some memory benefit from this process as well? Im getting tons of "out of memory" issues since using NI Maschine...maybe its the NI software..Iv been reading some rubbish about it...

[_ceone]

I would love to get a 64bit version of live in order to to be able to use it in conjunction with Reaper via REAROUTE.

[H0PE]

Opps...

So I shouldn't even install 64bit vsts right?

I was just fiddling with some free vsts and scratching my head how to include 64bit and 32bit vst folder in ableton, but only one folder could be added.
I was trying to include c:\ rather than the vst plugin folder but abletone froze like a frog when attacked, LOL.

[Khazul]

Just make sure 32 bit plugins go into the 32 bit plugins folder and 64 bit go into a 64 bit folder. Only add the 32 bit folder to Live. Obviously if you have no 64 host, then you dont need 64 bit plugins, but if you plan on getting one, then might save you some hassle later (re-installing plugins) if you allow the 64 bit version to install as well.

[kmika99]

Gosh this all reminds me of when I had to configure my RAM everytime I wanted to play a different video game..hehe..yes i'm old...

As of now, I'm wondering if I should upgrade to 64 bit or stay with current setup for a while and just live with running things like omnisphere in another host and just creating audio to put into Live

If I did go to a new computer would this kind of setup work?

Use Sonar as a host, have Omnisphere running as a plug in, and have Live running as Rewire..
Of course I know this should work, my question is would I be taking advantage of the benefit of 64 bit and specifically the extra RAM available? Is it as wonderfully simple as Sonar and Omnisphere will benefit and Live will chug happily along as long as I don't overdo it inside Live itself??? Would I have to do anything other than run the programs to make it work??

[wondermask]

yes, WHEN? I have 12 GB x64. Ableton Live is the best; that is until you face the memory problem.

[Cuica man]

Please!!! I'll pay an upgrade price.

[fisto]

I would love to get a 64bit version of live in order to to be able to use it in conjunction with Reaper via REAROUTE.

I think you should be able to run reaper x64 Bit and Live x32 bit (with Rearoute) at the same time. Have you tried it?
I use them sometimes side by side with rearoute but with Reaper x32 bit.

Don't think it's necessary to have em both 64 bit.

@ others: have you tried using bitbridge for the Ram-hungry VSTs? There you can use 64-bit plugs in 32-bit environment and also 32-bits in 64.bit apps and 32-bit in 32-bit apps (outsourcing of Ram into a dedicated process) ?

Might help.