Fix the sync issues now !! yes or no ?

[3phase]

crying?

because i feel ashamed for ableton?
aslong i still see the potential that they might be able to get it wright with a bit thinking and propper conceptional strength i dont see a reason to cry for them..

you know.. such implementations can happen when you stich things with the hot needle..
and that theier try to fix it just was from a rather cosmetical nature is most defently related to the general L8 problematic..

but,... when they dont make it on the next try we have to assume unability..
because there is no good reason to not getting this fixed, especially in a situation where every day more users want to sync with each other.

and that would be really sad..

[Joshua Lee]

I'm not really sure why everyone on here gives 3Phase such a hard time, personally I'd like to take this opportunity to thank him for all his "ranting", since I think that it is for the benefit of all of us. I certainly don't have the time to champion the cause as much as he does, but I agree with most of what he's been saying lately, and I feel that he has backed his arguments up with some pretty strong logic. In short, he has been coming across as pretty damn intelligent, while those who attack him usually sound like moronic fanboys, at least to me...

Personally, if I were Ableton and I wanted to shut him up on this forum, I'd probably just hire him as a consultant.

P.S. I think that if Ableton are aware that sync doesn't work for so many people and they can't seem to fix it, they need to add a notation of that in the manual so that people don't wast their time trying to make it work and thinking that they are doing something wrong themselves. Or perhaps don't even advertise it as a feature at all. That seems like the right thing to do, and I think it is critically important at this juncture for Ableton to do the right thing by its customers as often as possible, lest they lose even more to Native Instruments (or whoever). I myself have Maschine, and while it is currently no real contender to Live, I have to admit that I have been fantasizing about an NI DAW, something I wouldn't have been able to even fathom thinking about 2 years ago when Live worked beautifully and I had total trust in Ableton as a company.

[Tone Deft]

I'm not really sure why everyone on here gives 3Phase such a hard time.

because he's an a-hole about it. totally rude, insulting and condescending. read his poll, totally slanted, biased, rude and childish.

Personally, if I were Ableton and I wanted to shut him up on this forum, I'd probably just hire him as a consultant.

read up, you're totally in the dark.

support has straight up said they don't care to read his bug reports because he's completely impossible to work with. when asked what he did to break midi sync his response was "smoked a cigarette" that's all he would say.

[hoffman2k]

Personally, if I were Ableton and I wanted to shut him up on this forum, I'd probably just hire him as a consultant.

Note the part earlier in the thread where somebody at Ableton offers to come to his studio to help sort this issue out. Then note how he refuses, insults the person who offered and then goes on to claim Ableton isn't looking at this issue. It could have been fixed by now, but instead we get what you call "logical intelligent responses".

[Joshua Lee]

because he's an asshole about it. totally rude, insulting and condescending.

I think that the same things could be said about you at times, as well. Telling me that I am "in the dark" sounds more than a little condescending doesn't it? What do you know about me, or what I do or do not know? And what makes you feel so enlightened to say such a thing? Please tell me it is not your high post count, because to me that completely discredits you from the start. Still, I'd like to think that if you had a good point, I wouldn't attack the idea by trying to discredit you in the same manner it seems like people are doing to him. For instance, I don't usually like the, ahem, tone of most of your postings on here, but I do think that you've had some fairly intelligent postings regarding Max4Live and some other things at times.

Again, this is just my opinion, but I think that regarding this subject 3Phase has shown intelligence and taste (and, yes, even humor!), and I think that Ableton would do well to listen to him. Not much point in discussing it further, I've said what's on my mind and tried to influence the outcome, but only time will tell what the outcome will be, I suppose...

[Tone Deft]

holy fuck you're delusional. I can be an asshole when confronted by assholes like you, deal with it. pots and kettles.

"3Phase has shown intelligence and taste"
you're trolling.

[Joshua Lee]

Personally, if I were Ableton and I wanted to shut him up on this forum, I'd probably just hire him as a consultant.

Note the part earlier in the thread where somebody at Ableton offers to come to his studio to help sort this issue out. Then note how he refuses, insults the person who offered and then goes on to claim Ableton isn't looking at this issue. It could have been fixed by now, but instead we get what you call "logical intelligent responses".

Was this person going to come to his studio and rewrite the code on his personal copy of Live, or something? Perhaps bring special hardware? How were they going to fix it exactly? And if it could've been fixed so easily and assuredly, then why doesn't Ableton post a sticky tutorial on how to make it work on this forum that would benefit all users, instead of making one off housecalls?

If you can give me a solid answer to these questions, I will most definitely change my opinion, but until that time, I am unflinchingly resolute in my current evaluation of the program- reliable external sync should've came before timecode sync, assuming Ableton cares more about its customers than its business plan.

For the time being I still am in Ableton's corner, and I am holding out thinking that the the core nucleus (Gerhard, Rob, etc.) are still the cool, forward-thinking dudes I thought back when I bought version 1, and that these new problems are caused by contamination that occurred via the recent growth of the company, however, again I am also keeping my eyes open for possible replacements, as well. Ableton, as a company, can take that for what it's worth, but I'm pretty sure I'm not the only person who feels this way...

[3phase]

I'm not really sure why everyone on here gives 3Phase such a hard time, personally I'd like to take this opportunity to thank him for all his "ranting", since I think that it is for the benefit of all of us. I certainly don't have the time to champion the cause as much as he does, but I agree with most of what he's been saying lately, and I feel that he has backed his arguments up with some pretty strong logic. In short, he has been coming across as pretty damn intelligent, while those who attack him usually sound like moronic fanboys, at least to me...

Personally, if I were Ableton and I wanted to shut him up on this forum, I'd probably just hire him as a consultant.

P.S. I think that if Ableton are aware that sync doesn't work for so many people and they can't seem to fix it, they need to add a notation of that in the manual so that people don't wast their time trying to make it work and thinking that they are doing something wrong themselves. Or perhaps don't even advertise it as a feature at all. That seems like the right thing to do, and I think it is critically important at this juncture for Ableton to do the right thing by its customers as often as possible, lest they lose even more to Native Instruments (or whoever). I myself have Maschine, and while it is currently no real contender to Live, I have to admit that I have been fantasizing about an NI DAW, something I wouldn't have been able to even fathom thinking about 2 years ago when Live worked beautifully and I had total trust in Ableton as a company.

thanks for the kind words..

and i would say a NI daw sounds as a promissing wish for me too because they have shown a much higher insight into needs of musicans and also future needs of musicans than ableton, who seem to permanently beeing engaged in a backward fight to become a real daw while in the same time launching all kinds of cooperations to be a dj tool..to be a max patching enviroment.. to alow to play video clips.. without beeing really good in any of theese diziplins..

while the only thing the majority of users want to do with the program is to jam along.. to create

And .. they want to jam along with others now.. they all have a laptop..they all have ableton live .. or something else.. and they all have spend many years doing tracks allone..with or without release dont matters here..

the trend is towards the computer band.. people will want to sync and do want to sync allready for many years now.. and in a short while ..they will want to sync wireless !!

thats the very clear future. its printed all over the sky

And they will want to sync without audio degeneration..


Is ableton the company that is able to achive that, when they are not even able to get the midi sync done on a core midi equiped mac?

They defently should wake up and work on the future instead allways running behind and produce halfbaked provisoric implemetations of age old features..

maybe i should apply at NI and tell them about wireless synctactics what ive told ableton about it...
But i dont think they need that.. they allerady manged to sync to a clock.. the might have enough ideas to do that wirelss too..

there are enough daw´s on the market..i am perfectly fine with all the others for arranging and mixdown..
but for stage use live behaves wright now as a tank with broken motor...

not only that jamming with others is prohibitted by abletons sync performance..
so many details going worse than the used to be..
in the past you was able to throw in plugs and sounds as you liked..
no you get sync out glitches... aso and so on

you are also forced to build this monster szise sets because you cant reload or run parallel instances..

this kind of developments really indicate a wrong direction and priority ranking..
syncing and other jam related functionality be on priority place one.
not somewhere far behind horizotal follow actions or other crap nobody really needs..

luxury features.. but syncing is not a luxus..its a basic need for people that dont work alone with just one laptop..
people that like to improvise tend to like to play in groups..and tend to like to be able to decide on the fly what song to play.. that is nothing new..
its actually much older than the ability to do it all alone with the aid of a laptop..
So the wishes to have parallel instance handling and good syncing are so old that people have somehow stopped to repeat them all over again and again.

But seeing the actual development in the music world it´s theese oldest wishes that are the most future related ones aswell.
But Ableton seems to enjoy beeing allways behind. They still favor the ego shooting singular producer.. the techno model of the 90´s.
So we will see the all important surround support and convolution reverb in L9..wich are again last century daw standards..That will make us all so happy that we will overlook that the syncing is still shit..

It should be easy for a competiter to steal quite a bit from abletons stage related market with the wright product..

[3phase]

Personally, if I were Ableton and I wanted to shut him up on this forum, I'd probably just hire him as a consultant.

Note the part earlier in the thread where somebody at Ableton offers to come to his studio to help sort this issue out. Then note how he refuses, insults the person who offered and then goes on to claim Ableton isn't looking at this issue. It could have been fixed by now, but instead we get what you call "logical intelligent responses".

i talked to that ableton guy in privat because he is in fact really my studio neighbor,but we agreed that its useless to let him waste his time on being polite with a personal visit that cant change a thing with the performance isues..

this is the same kind of lies you was spreading last year when you was claiming i havent helped ableton with "MY" bugs...

what do you know what i mail around in the background?
or have you had at least a look i the bug forum?

I spend more time with theire bugs than one user should to and i lost money because some of the many live 8 bugs..
actually enough to buy a few suites and a new laptop...

sorry man...your stupid fanboy polemik is useless.. you cant declare the performance of ableton live good by calling me a asshole..

that just shows that you dont have arguments

[Tone Deft]

you cant declare the performance of ableton live good by calling me a asshole..

that just shows that you dont have arguments

nope, that was me. hypocritical but this horse has been beat to death.

on my old laptop and my new desktop I can sync my MPC to Live, set both to use the same metronome sounds, sync them and the metronomes flange. I can change bpm and they track. if I change bpms violently they drift but sync again within a measure.

I have no doubt some people have problems.

which of your poll options should I choose?

btw you're being pretty mellow in the face of criticism.

[Poster]

what do you know what i mail around in the background?

what ever it was it got you banned from support..

[macmurphy]

when has noah build the arch? before the flood !!

didn't happen

[3phase]

what do you know what i mail around in the background?

what ever it was it got you banned from support..

yes.. and i told it a few times allready.. they asked how to reproduce the bug..and i saiyed, run a few midi clips and light a cigarette..

what was actually the truth. they just didnt belived in ableton bugs back than... was still all user bugs where the user had to bring the effort to proove his bug to get it solved..

sorry..random crash bugs on a stage tool? i reported it..they have to search for it..its theire product..

and up to this day the only reason i can see that this bug came thru the betatesting is probably because they handled theire free amateur betatesters the same way.. can you reproduce it? no? = usererror..

its a bit hard to ignore crashes only becuase the user cant tell how to reproduce them.. that it crashes must be enough to ring some bells..

however..a few month later everybody got it that soemthing is wrong.. i ve a certain talent in experiancing bugs and trends earlier than others..

so i was just to early in reporting a problem and after a dammaged gig in front of 2000 people not in the mood to play theire retarded Brazil routine..

But
they have installed a scrum master now to take care that such things never happen again..

[3phase]

you cant declare the performance of ableton live good by calling me a asshole..

that just shows that you dont have arguments

nope, that was me. hypocritical but this horse has been beat to death.

on my old laptop and my new desktop I can sync my MPC to Live, set both to use the same metronome sounds, sync them and the metronomes flange. I can change bpm and they track. if I change bpms violently they drift but sync again within a measure.

I have no doubt some people have problems.

which of your poll options should I choose?

btw you're being pretty mellow in the face of criticism.

do you think flanging is good enough?

thats nice for you and the other people that use live not as a production base and dont want to have transparent audio..

that the wobbeling tempo is canceling the latency compensation and gets the brown henke dither on is not bothering you..

and that the groove suffers? which groove? you only know the wobbeling version..so ther is nothing you miss.

thats great..customers with 1997 sync demands and mp3 audio demands..
ideal customer.stay this way..it is relaxing.

So just vote that ableton knows best what is good for you and enjoy your flight

[Tone Deft]

with clock adjustments that only go down to milliseconds you can't get sample perfect alignment and go for cancellation.

even then midi is just a 3.125 kbps signal.