Fix the sync issues now !! yes or no ?

[davepermen]

depperman..we had polite wishes for better sync for how many years now?

you, never. i don't know you polite to ableton at all since i own live7.

ableton dont reacts on beeing polite..they react on to much noise in the user base..

they reacted on my polite requests and bug reports instantly.

so please everybody suffering from wobbelsync please make some noise..

yeah, as if that helped, like since live exists.

that will cause a fix of your issues..

no, that will cause that no one at ableton will ever listen to you

Its like when somebody ows you money..ad you are the one beeing polite.. you get payed last..

no. it's like you walk to someone, punch him in the face, and then ask, now, do you help me? i gave you a reason to help me, now, i punched you in the face.

thats the reason the freaky sync performance is handled as state of the art by now because people have given up allready on asking for better sync.

or because it is not that big of a problem. there are different people reporting in here to have found their way with sync, so that it works without all your issues. german engineering 101: getting your stuff to work. others got it. you don't.


what you do here, is like walking into an open place (an excibition with ableton and others) with a megaphone, shouting to the ableton stand how much they suck, how they fail, and how you would buy any other competing product instantly to get rid of them. do you expect anyone to then come over to you and say "oh thanks for helping us realising our fault, we fix this instantly for you, nice guy".

unpolite people DON'T get to first line. they DON'T get friends. they DON'T get help. you are proof of this.

and you still don't get my name. which shows how much you really don't get it.

[dum]

so if we are to believe Dave, Ableton will ignore serious issues in their software if they don't like the 'tone' of the person reporting them.

That scenario would be totally scandalous if it were true.
Maybe it is true ?

[davepermen]

so if we are to believe Dave, Ableton will ignore serious issues in their software if they don't like the 'tone' of the person reporting them.

That scenario would be totally scandalous if it were true.
Maybe it is true ?

who do you want to help first? the polite one or the one shouting at you, calling you an idiot (i get called depperman), telling you he runs to the next other company if he can (so he's not a customer that will stay with you anyways), and not accepting any help from you actually.

i would first help the polite one.

[dum]

If you have to make such analogies all the time, it's clear you don't have such a strong argument. Not even a weak one.

A serious flaw in the software is a serious flaw. It's seriousness is in no way gauged by how nice/irate the person was when reporting it. If that's how you behave in your job as a software developer I advise you to keep it secret where you work.

[Poster]

A serious flaw in the software is a serious flaw. It's seriousness is in no way gauged by how nice/irate the person was when reporting it.

true.. but notice this flaw has been acknowledged on page 2..
we're now 17 pages further with the same childish ranting and many other threads spammed with the same attitude towards the company..

[davepermen]

If you have to make such analogies all the time, it's clear you don't have such a strong argument. Not even a weak one.

A serious flaw in the software is a serious flaw. It's seriousness is in no way gauged by how nice/irate the person was when reporting it. If that's how you behave in your job as a software developer I advise you to keep it secret where you work.

i never argued about the flaw, i know it's there, at least in 3phase's setup. which is why i voted "yes, fix it".

i argue about 3phase's believe on how he goes the right way to get it fixed. how he argues that his misbehaver is somehow right, and will reach his goal of having stable sync one day. because it won't. shouting, ranting, dismissing help, calling names, lying. that won't get the problems solved faster. and it shows, his problems aren't solved yet.

[3phase]

We're well, well aware at this point of the concerns over sync, and are working on it. Really.

the interesting question is if they were well aware before this thread has started, or has the thread just strengthen that awareness ?

early in the thread NIS said he will try to get it on the agenda..now it is on the agenda?

The statement from mr de santis clearly points in that direction..

So

can you please stop bitching around wether the tactics and tone to achive that was wright or not and leave the space to collect more data or ideas? or collect more data yourself aswell? how is your system behaving?

The test of outaspongolia is puzzeling me a bit,
that the one laptop in slave sync was operating in the 0.1 bpm range made me currious..was this a lucky accident?
is that the old probook L8 was optimized for?


at least it seemed that owners of that model lived pretty bug free with L8..
i guess thats the laptop the ableton internal "beta testers" use...
In any case 0.1 bpm is not so bad..wouldnt have made such much noise whenn this would be standard operation in all midi clock sync szenarios..

however.. sync has to be good for all laptops that allow that..
do windows machines allow that?

i would say yes. with the wright algorythm..

in another thread i mentioned the idea to have something like a jitter profile live is generating..and an automatic adapting algorythm..so a pc laptop gets stable aswell.-..but is maybe not as quick on tempochanges..

what would be much better than compromize with the tempo stability to an amount where its really unusable..

tempo changes are a luxury function.. especially quick tempo changes.. when the progerm starts to make funny glitches on a tempo change that can be seen as a freaky charakter..maybe even makes it on some records..

while wobbeling usually dont goes nowhere. people just dont use the clock sync..and therefore its totally redundant to be fast on tempochanges when nobody uses the clock sync anyway..

And..
with jitter profiling it would be possible to be reasonable fast on a tempo change anyway

fast on a tempo change is to start to speed up or down imideatly..
the execution of the tempo change itself dont needs to happen in real time..

when the master changes within one bar.. the salve should recognize that imideatly..because its the time the slave sticks to teh old tempo that is most audible.. as soon the slave has startedto speedchange aswell we are in a semi random transition..which usually in a composition is anyway introduced and supported by the arrangement.. so it dont really hurts..
can be very nice to deal with that and as long the slave dont needs to long it sounds musical.

i would say the slave well can use twice the time to perform a tempochange as the master without getting unmusical..

the prefference should be towards stability..not nervosity..

if its really necessary allow user options.

[pepezabala]

Wright invented the flight.

The brothers, I mean.

Right on, I want my sync fixed as well now. Fix sync.

[3phase]

[zee verkawound]

If you have to make such analogies all the time, it's clear you don't have such a strong argument. Not even a weak one.

A serious flaw in the software is a serious flaw. It's seriousness is in no way gauged by how nice/irate the person was when reporting it. If that's how you behave in your job as a software developer I advise you to keep it secret where you work.

i never argued about the flaw, i know it's there, at least in 3phase's setup. which is why i voted "yes, fix it".

i argue about 3phase's believe on how he goes the right way to get it fixed. how he argues that his misbehaver is somehow right, and will reach his goal of having stable sync one day. because it won't. shouting, ranting, dismissing help, calling names, lying. that won't get the problems solved faster. and it shows, his problems aren't solved yet.

Dave, you know in all honesty, your pseudo police work here on this forum is WORSE than anything I have ever read concerning what 3phase has posted. By far you are 10x more annoying than anyone on this forum. At least 3phase has something factual and down right relevant to say and share with respect to the program. You on the other hand DO NOT. So please, do EVERYONE a favor and STFU.

[davepermen]

If you have to make such analogies all the time, it's clear you don't have such a strong argument. Not even a weak one.

A serious flaw in the software is a serious flaw. It's seriousness is in no way gauged by how nice/irate the person was when reporting it. If that's how you behave in your job as a software developer I advise you to keep it secret where you work.

i never argued about the flaw, i know it's there, at least in 3phase's setup. which is why i voted "yes, fix it".

i argue about 3phase's believe on how he goes the right way to get it fixed. how he argues that his misbehaver is somehow right, and will reach his goal of having stable sync one day. because it won't. shouting, ranting, dismissing help, calling names, lying. that won't get the problems solved faster. and it shows, his problems aren't solved yet.

Dave, you know in all honesty, your pseudo police work here on this forum is WORSE than anything I have ever read concerning what 3phase has posted. By far you are 10x more annoying than anyone on this forum. At least 3phase has something factual and down right relevant to say and share with respect to the program. You on the other hand DO NOT. So please, do EVERYONE a favor and STFU.

so you prefer to just have personal attacks, shouting, bashing and all all the time in the forum? well, enjoy it, then. i don't. i like discussions about anything, but in a polite way. because all the hating and shouting does not make any discussion better, any argument more right, anything. 3phase just thinks the more he shouts, the better. like a kid that wants something it doesn't get. i don't know much more annoying things than people behaving like that.

and, as far as i know, i have posted quite some relevant to the program stuff, and helped or tried to help quite some people in here. which i will continue to.

so no, i will not STFU. i will always attack missbehaving people. i never attack good points (3phase has some good points).

[3phase]

the shouting kids usually get what they are aiming for..otherwise that reflex would have died out ages ago...

could you now please stop talking about me? or make another thread just for that? maybe do a poll who is the worst user of that forum.. i dont mind to win if the bloody program gets in a working state thru the process..

fact is when i started to "rant" ableton had clearly reached a state of arrogance thru theire achivement and success...
that my ranting turned out to be founded on the actualy real bad state of the L8 release and certain bugs i pointed to, that was probably even older than L8, silenced that arrogance.. at least i never heard anything in such a "from above" tone from them again..

that i still act nasty is now founded on the latest release where they violated theier own quality statement by introducing new features before reaching stability..
wether timing stability is part of that is of cause debatable..
in any case it was a provokation to sync with serato before they fixed theier internal sync affairs.
ther are clearly unsolved bugs inside that department..and there are conceptional bugs in that depertment..
so no new features before theese are fixed.. so clear violation of the quality statement

qualifies for the unfriendly tone in my opinion.
thats a little punishment..they shall see it as a wakeup call and not an act of pure hate.

[dab]

Timing is the most important factor of a daw? This should be Ableton's highest priority before anything else. It's obvious its difficult to solve, but nevertheless they have acknowledged it and hopefully will fix by the next update...

[davepermen]

the shouting kids usually get what they are aiming for..otherwise that reflex would have died out ages ago...

and do they deserve it for the bad behaviour? and no, so far, no kid ever got from me what they where aiming for, if they don't behave.

could you now please stop talking about me? or make another thread just for that? maybe do a poll who is the worst user of that forum.. i dont mind to win if the bloody program gets in a working state thru the process..

if you would learn to not derail all the threads towards your target of attacking ableton, maybe.

fact is when i started to "rant" ableton had clearly reached a state of arrogance thru theire achivement and success...
that my ranting turned out to be founded on the actualy real bad state of the L8 release and certain bugs i pointed to, that was probably even older than L8, silenced that arrogance.. at least i never heard anything in such a "from above" tone from them again..

yeah, you saved live. thanks for that. /sarkasm. i guess it's more the fact that tons of others had and reported problems. but maybe, that's just me.

that i still act nasty is now founded on the latest release where they violated theier own quality statement by introducing new features before reaching stability..

tell me one feature they added that was NOT announced before the quality statement, and got produced by ableton themselves. amp? external made. bridge? announced before the quality statement.
there is nothing, where they violated their own quality statement.

wether timing stability is part of that is of cause debatable..
in any case it was a provokation to sync with serato before they fixed theier internal sync affairs.
ther are clearly unsolved bugs inside that department..and there are conceptional bugs in that depertment..
so no new features before theese are fixed.. so clear violation of the quality statement qualifies for the unfriendly tone in my opinion.

it was a provokation to you. everyone else knew quite long ago that serato sync will come, as it is one of the features of live 8. bugfixing came later, and yeah, i hope they fix midisync.

thats a little punishment..they shall see it as a wakeup call and not an act of pure hate.

a little? you're 50% of the hate in this forum, you alone. your tone is not a little attacking. you openly in public tell you would drop their product and run to the nearest competition if one would deliver sync, etc. that's not "a little punishment". as others (like tone deft) stated, you don't even know how harsh you sound.

[davepermen]

Timing is the most important factor of a daw? This should be Ableton's highest priority before anything else. It's obvious its difficult to solve, but nevertheless they have acknowledged it and hopefully will fix by the next update...

timing works for any single client setup, and for a lot of multi-client setups. yeah, it's not working in ALL situations. but the most important ones of a daw, it is. (i want it to be working everytime anyways, but the issue gets exagerated).