Using Ableton Live in Pre Production

Architect · Post by **Architect** » Wed Nov 10, 2004 1:45 am

I use Ableton Live 4.04 to create my music compositions (no problem there); but lately I've been having trouble figuring out how I'm going to do my mixdowns into a DAW like Nuendo, Sonar or Samplitude 7 and add my singers vocals to the entire sequence. Now I understand I can render my Ableton track to a single wav file and then import into the DAW of my choice, but I need the power to change my Ableton arrangement while actually recording the vocalist on the track.

Most often the artist I'm working with likes to change the arrangment after they've recorded the vocals, so I need an easy way to do that without going back into Ableton and editing the mix and rendering another file (that's too time consuming). I need something that is very fluid that will allow me to change the arrangement while vocals are being recording or after they've been recorded. I understand rewire can do this but I haven't really had real good success using it with Ableton except for using FL Studio as a slave to Ableton Live (that works very well).

Am I just doing something wrong in regards to using Rewire? How are you guys creating your arrangements with Ableton Live and are you adding vocals? I actually even tried to record my vocals inside of Ableton Live and it did work and sounded good, but not as flexible as using Nuendo or Sonar which is made to do that sort of thing. Any tips on this would be helpful.

On a side note if Ableton Live had the facilities to allow you to record vocals (without looping) similar to that of Nuendo (just an example) and had all the mixdown power then I honestly would not need anything else! This isn't a complaint either because I know Ableton Live isn't meant for that, but if the Ableton's happened to add that feature in the next version , I think they would really eat up the DAW market bigtime.

::mic-minimal:: · Post by **::mic-minimal::** » Wed Nov 10, 2004 2:36 am

they have that feature already. just turn off looping in your vocal tracks clip properties and it won't loop anymore, also turn off warping for that track and no algorithms willl be used on the audio.

in the manual read up on the arrangement view.

peace
-mic

Architect · Post by **Architect** » Wed Nov 10, 2004 2:50 am

Your right I know about turning off looping, I didn't think turning off warping made a difference as long as it doesn't loop the vocal. I have tried this method but I also need the ability to edit my vocal tracks more than just adding effects, etc in ableton. It does work I've tried it but I'm afraid there may be other features that traditional DAW's like Sonar or Cubase have for dealing with the vocals (they're a different type of animal).

supster · Post by **supster** » Wed Nov 10, 2004 4:10 am

Still not sure what you need to do with the vocals Live cant do (?). Like he said, just turn off looping on the clip, keep your BPM at the original tempo, then record your vocal take clip as long as you need it to be.

At that point you can take and split the clip in any way or as many times as you need to for rearrangment just like any other clip. Probably easier to rearrange and mix up than any other DAW.

If you really need to do vocals in a rewire master, than do that. Start up Neuendo (or whatever) - then start up Live. Bus your track outs from Live into the master app - use that mixer instead of Lives. Then make a track for your vox in the master and record away. They will stay synced up.

Does that answer your question or am I missing the point ...

Architect · Post by **Architect** » Wed Nov 10, 2004 5:35 am

Thanks for the insight and tips, regarding doing the vocals in live, well maybe I just need to get more comfortable doing that, I can't explain it now but there is something I was missing when I did try recording my vocals in live that was really helpful in other applications such as Nuendo. I'll go back and figure out my rewire issues with Nuendo and test that out. Are a lot of you guys recording your vocals directly inside of Live? Just curious.

::mic-minimal:: · Post by **::mic-minimal::** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 2:52 pm

yeah i record everything in live, got sonar 4 too, upgraded for the hell of it
but haven't used it since live first came out except some midi stuff, but live 4 took care of that as well. i make hiphop as well, would post a link but there won't be one until the new year....heard your stuff a while back, I think you know what you're doing already.....sounds good.

Architect · Post by **Architect** » Thu Nov 18, 2004 12:07 am

Thanks minimal, Yeah post up some goodies in the new year I would love to hear it.

warabunga · Post by **warabunga** » Wed Nov 24, 2004 4:00 pm

I guess the key to your voice editing would be cmd-e (to split) cmd-1/2/3/4 (for the quantisation) and cmd-j (for making a loop again). or edit vocals directely with the edit button... well, I might be off toppic but maybe it helps...
I personnaly do everything in live. not a lot of vocals though, so I might not understand your needs?

cheers

mikemc · Post by **mikemc** » Sat Jan 29, 2005 9:08 pm

Don't know if you've noticed you can designate a return "pre" instead of the default "post", this helps with vocals. You can mix. match and chain effects this way as well.

flavor32 · Post by **flavor32** » Tue Feb 01, 2005 7:19 pm

often i have created an arrangement in live and need the tracks to go into my pro tools rig for vocals and more (my digidesign A/D converters are WAY better than my laptop/live rig ones). i will then solo the tracks separately in live and render them out to mono or stereo audio files and then import them in to pro tools after burning them to cd (i select the entire song in the arrangement window and then bounce. this makes sure all the files are the same length and i can just line them up at the beginning of the song in pro tools.) sometimes i will just leave the tracks in live and slave live to pro tools using midi beat clock and just change the arrangement in live as needed which is easy : )

Penfold · Post by **Penfold** » Thu Apr 28, 2005 12:39 am

baically all the wants know is can he use live everything without having to use an extra program, like u could with cubase. this is what i would like to know to cause i hate having to use more than one program at a time. i would prefer things to me more centralised,

supster · Post by **supster** » Thu Apr 28, 2005 12:46 am

Penfold wrote:baically all the wants know is can he use live everything without having to use an extra program, like u could with cubase. this is what i would like to know to cause i hate having to use more than one program at a time. i would prefer things to me more centralised,

the answer is yes

recording vocals or whatever into live is very straightforward and gives you tons of options
.

Penfold · Post by **Penfold** » Thu Apr 28, 2005 12:19 pm

Well if thats the case, forget Cubase and everything else then....

edit....I downloaded the demo, all my plugsin worked flawlessly VSTi and VST's! Pitty my DX dont work but thet mostly both DXI and VST anyway so it all good. I loved the demo it look and seems simple to use. would love to have like a mixer window like Cubase & Logid though, it probably has one and I aint seen it yet....

Well off to IRC i go.

smart1123 · Post by **smart1123** » Thu Apr 28, 2005 5:43 pm

Penfold wrote: would love to have like a mixer window like Cubase & Logid though, it probably has one and I aint seen it yet....

Well off to IRC i go.

Press Tab

gsbe · Post by **gsbe** » Sun May 15, 2005 2:25 am

Perhaps what Architect is talking about here is Nuendo's ability to layer multiple takes on the same track. If so, I agree - track layers would be a very helpful to Live's arrangement view. In addition to Nuendo, I believe that there are other DAW apps like Sonar 4 with this feature.

Imagine that you have created an arrangement that will feature a vocalist. You lay out the song structure in Live's arrangement view in preperation for the vocalist's visit to your studio. You really want the vocal to be very strong so you'd like to compile the final vocal track from the best sections of multiple takes.

The easiest way to think about track layers is: a track within the track. Audio clips stack up vertically within the track, giving the visual appearance of many tracks stored in one. These takes dispaly similar to multiple tracks but they are really only one track so they share all the parameters associated with that track.

Without such a feature, you have to go through the steps of adding a track, selecting the inputs and outputs, muting the prior take, and hitting record just to create a new take. Track layers make creating comps SO much easier.

Using Ableton Live in Pre Production

Using Ableton Live in Pre Production

effects sends/returns

making a vocal comp with track layers