Automation in live, way more tedious than in most Daws

[3phase]

also beeing able to disable automation temporarily is very important in a real studio sitution where you might just want to show the customer something...

ok.. i wouldnt use live in a customer situation anyway.. therfore i also can live without arrange and automation functionalitys..

it would be however nice seeing live developing a clear design philosophy again.. and better one that values quality..

its actually a pitty to see how the initial superior design has developed over the years..
it got slightly frankensteinered instead getting further improovements.

since the start they just add missing functions..and often dont follow their own design conventions doing so...

what a missed chance to do something fresh and new on the midi side..instead we have a really fragmented, plug in dependent implementation that cant even rival 1980´standards

[fisto]

Well, for those who want better automation, take a look at presonus studio one:
all kinds of curves, even lfo-like gridbased automation with a great transformation-tool.
Also they listen to their customers very well, and there will surely be something lke session-view in future versions.
I wonder what happened to the cool innovative abe-philosophy. Really looks like they are implementing stuff half-hearted in ordet to charge for the full feature-set in a expensive upgrade.
BUT: this game won't work for very long though, believe me. As soon as other developers pick the session stuff up (and they are doing already) the abes gonna have to leave as a lot of former live-users are looking for alzernatives cause live has so much "half"-features.
Live 9 better be good with some real new features not like:" and look: now you can make a crossfade between two clips in arrangement, or: grouptracks."
and live is already10 years old. What do they do all the time? Just spending money from the half-daw-program?
Step up or let it be, but i feel like a stupid cow cause i have started using liv and now can't live without it although i miss so much functionality----too bad

[fisto]

Ps: @abes: your users are going to other daw-forums and requesting stuff that live has (but not well implemented). BUT: the developers there say: keep on talking, we're listening. So prepare to loose a lot of users in some time . When have you said something like this. You keep ignoring us snce quite a while now!
Why?

If you can't handle your programming get some coders, pay them good money (you have enough), let them sign a "i won't spread the code" contract and make us happy

or leave the game please, cause as it is now, it is just tragedy

[Der_Makrophag]

Step up or let it be, but i feel like a stupid cow cause i have started using liv and now can't live without it although i miss so much functionality----too bad

Really a true statement!

[fx23]

AUTOMATION TO SESSION with AUTO Points reduction and BEZIER CONVERSION, transferable from-to arrangement/session.
with scalable XY build in standard and user editable most used SHAPES library

that's would be THE thing.

[jimmynitcher]

I like Select Time and drag with pointer - automatically creates 4 nodes for 0-100% changes - you can't do that in Logic without a Region so for Buses you have to create empty regions just for that purpose also logic has one tool for creating nodes and another for selecting them how many extra clicks is that!

Grass is always greener....

[Manestra]

eh? really? I find using Automation in Live far easier than in Cubase - but then i'm still using SX3 - maybe they improved it in 4/5?

+1 on curves though.

I worked with Cubase SX 1. And even there it was easier to handle than in L8.

How do you work with L8 when you say it's easier?
What's your workaround? Maybe you've got a better way to handle?

In Cubase SX you have the snap function - which is not there in L8.

So, I'm really interested how you do that in your daily work?!?

[alex.the.forge]

finally people are jumping on the automation train! I have been the forums biggest pain in the arse about this for many years now…. to the point that I have been repeatedly amazed by how few people seemed to complain about it.

I do like the "instant" nature of Live's automation in that I like being able to record everything I do just by hitting record. But as soon as you want to start changing things that you don't want recorded while you are recording, Live starts to become a major arse ache. And editing it afterwards is still in the dark ages.

But in reference to the single click automation - I would love it too, but I think the reason it's not there is because you can single click and select an area to move/delete/duplicate. This is really one of Live's good points as far as editing goes in my opinion, and I'm not sure how the 2 could co-exist.

But definitely something needs to be done.

[beats me]

It wasn't too long ago when if you needed 20 parameters adjusted during a mix down you needed 10 people in the room all Twister style moving knobs and faders on the fly with both hands and you just got what you got. Now everybody is all up in arms when they can't get their computer to micro edit 73 parameters to the millisecond with as few steps as possible with the perfect curve.

Music: Why it's no longer fun and more about advanced math.

[Der_Makrophag]

Music: Why it's no longer fun and more about advanced math.

Because music IS math! You just have to have fun with this type of math!

[jimmynitcher]

It wasn't too long ago when if you needed 20 parameters adjusted during a mix down you needed 10 people in the room all Twister style moving knobs and faders on the fly with both hands and you just got what you got. Now everybody is all up in arms when they can't get their computer to micro edit 73 parameters to the millisecond with as few steps as possible with the perfect curve.

Music: Why it's no longer fun and more about advanced math.

Well said sir!

[3phase]

It wasn't too long ago when if you needed 20 parameters adjusted during a mix down you needed 10 people in the room all Twister style moving knobs and faders on the fly with both hands and you just got what you got. Now everybody is all up in arms when they can't get their computer to micro edit 73 parameters to the millisecond with as few steps as possible with the perfect curve.

Music: Why it's no longer fun and more about advanced math.

Well said sir!

bullshit.. you need the bloody automation because you just have one mouse and a surface with lots of hidden controls you have to navigate thru..

On a real desk you do 100 adjustments in one run... with the normal daw maybe 3...

so you need to run the track 30 times more to achive the same mix refinement than on a real desk..

but ok..automation wont make that any better..however any workflow improovement that safes the users time it worth it..

its actually true that you have to do many more moves with ableton live as with some other daw´s..

and that your actions are just based on graphical feedback on a system that has no fixed zoomsetting or the ability to jump to defined zoom presets..

like in many other departments live is underdeveloped in the details.. i see why they dont want to have a classical automation.. that would show that theire conception was flawed from the beginning..
they dont have a classical mixing desk approach.. the channels are independent sound sources rather than parts of a mixer... maybe good so..

but..

if thats the way it should be done as comfi as possible.. and a off switch for the automation for each track is needed.. maybe a function to slave to other tracks automation.. and arteficial inteligece on the rubberband.. when i place a point it has to realize that even when i am not exactly on it.. close has to be enough...

and when there are no other points close by it could set me 3 points with just the center one where i click... because we anyway dont like to do it without one or 2 helper points this will safe a lot of clicking in the long run and so on..

also the draw tool could behave more itelligent.. when you realy draw it could give you ramps instead of dozend steps you have to clean put by hand...

In general arteficial intelligence would suite live well..or any other daw.. actually opcode studiovison was the only one o ever came along that was programming a bit in that direction.. smart programming to rise the user comfort and interaction...

[necho]

I like Reaper's automation.

[TRS80]

In general arteficial intelligence would suite live well..or any other daw.. actually opcode studiovison was the only one o ever came along that was programming a bit in that direction.. smart programming to rise the user comfort and interaction...

god I miss Opcode! The day Gibson bought and mothballed Opcode is a dark fucking time in daw history. Full of great features some of which aren't replicated in any other daw to this day. Converting a monophonic audio track (Audio to MIDI) to a good sounding MIDI track was incredible. Dave Oppenheim and his team were ahead of their time.

[3phase]

In general arteficial intelligence would suite live well..or any other daw.. actually opcode studiovison was the only one o ever came along that was programming a bit in that direction.. smart programming to rise the user comfort and interaction...

god I miss Opcode! The day Gibson bought and mothballed Opcode is a dark fucking time in daw history. Full of great features some of which aren't replicated in any other daw to this day. Converting a monophonic audio track (Audio to MIDI) to a good sounding MIDI track was incredible. Dave Oppenheim and his team were ahead of their time.

yep...sad truth...

ableton live was the closest match so i jumped on that train after a little while back on logic...

however..even when the launch modes of the ableton clips appear as a direct takeover from studiovision they never dared to really copy it..what is sad in a way..

the concepts to have a whole arrange window as the singel scene was brilliant and is still unmatched..

studio vision was able to have 9 scenes running in parallel at independend speeds but synchroized start..

unmatched.. and more or less written by a single guy as far i have heard.

however..he is still with us.. i heard he is working for apple now and has designed the core audio midi...

actually lucky for ableton that apple set on logic instead freeing studio vision.. what is rather strange by the way because apple and gibson are rather good friends as it looks....and studio vison is an all american product.. while the daw market is pretty german dominated now.
only problem with studiovison was the us americam safety protocolls..

are you sure on a record enable is really not so helpfull when you want to be spontanious.
But beside that they would have blown ableton out of the water ...and the others aswell.
if they would have been reanimated by apple.

has studiovison ever crashed? cant really remember..was remarkable stable..