Everyone wants VSTi/AU support for live ASAP. Not me, sure it would be cool and I look forward to the day- but not now. I was thinking about the man-hours it would take for Ableton to develop such a midi engine to handle this, and then do so in a NON-half ass way so no one bitches to much about how its not like logic or cubase-> …well it would take a while and also take away resources that can be used by the development team to make Live 100% stable- as well as add in some usability requests (such as those found on in wish list forum)
Id like to see their efforts go towards:
Making midi sync solid as can be
Creating other plugs (perhaps so cool they exist as a separate product)
Simple descriptive editing (crop loop, fades, silence selection…)
And my countless wishes in the forum..
There a small company guys, careful what you ask for, Live was never sold as a sequencer- it’s a sophisticated multi-track recorder ideal for loop based music.
datagroove
NO thanks for now on the VSTi/midi thing...
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datagroove
- Posts: 87
- Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2003 10:27 pm
- Location: Los Angeles, CA
I'm following you to some well, rather large extend Datagroove , primarily because all my music needs are purely audio-de-construction of cut 'n paste samples related ... [I'm not into "classic" midi stuff ]
but I also don't want Live to evolve into the next Logic/cubase/Sonar thing lookalike ...
I do think that it speaks for Ableton's userfriendlyness and performance-orientation that so many users of the mentionned packages want to make the switch but can't let loose of mostly particular functionality of eg. Logic ...
So I agree that work should first go into all things audio and stability [the heart and soul of Live ] ...
BTW, Live IS marketed as "SEQUENCING INSTRUMENT"
but I also don't want Live to evolve into the next Logic/cubase/Sonar thing lookalike ...
I do think that it speaks for Ableton's userfriendlyness and performance-orientation that so many users of the mentionned packages want to make the switch but can't let loose of mostly particular functionality of eg. Logic ...
So I agree that work should first go into all things audio and stability [the heart and soul of Live ] ...
BTW, Live IS marketed as "SEQUENCING INSTRUMENT"
http://www.mbazzy.tk -
Mbazzy's "The dysfunctional playground, a scrapbook a bout the shape of useless things" now OUT on Retinascan - http://www.retinascan.de
Mbazzy's "The dysfunctional playground, a scrapbook a bout the shape of useless things" now OUT on Retinascan - http://www.retinascan.de
datagroove - you seem to be confusing two different requested features:
- VSTi/AUi hosting
- MIDI sequencing
These are quite separate. VSTi hosting ought to be a simple extension of VST effect hosting, while I agree that MIDI sequencing is a completely new thing for Ableton to be adding which I personally think is not the direction they should be going.
But I really don't see that hosting softsynths is either hard nor compromises stability (any more than hosting effect plugins).
- VSTi/AUi hosting
- MIDI sequencing
These are quite separate. VSTi hosting ought to be a simple extension of VST effect hosting, while I agree that MIDI sequencing is a completely new thing for Ableton to be adding which I personally think is not the direction they should be going.
But I really don't see that hosting softsynths is either hard nor compromises stability (any more than hosting effect plugins).
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datagroove
- Posts: 87
- Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2003 10:27 pm
- Location: Los Angeles, CA
you add instruments (vst or au) and you want to sequence them -you are adding midi.. add midi and its the engine that drives the sequencing.... - this is what i am speaking of- the engine that would drive the midi. (recording, quantising, transposing, program changes... a new cycling engine...)
Granted Ableton can just put VSTi support and call it cool as can be for simply triggering the instrument via a keyboard controller and recording the audio only!. That much would still be cool, but i think the overall general public is thinking that if they get vsti support there going to get a piano roll editor and little dots that trigger a synth.
datagroove (not confused- but i see your point on clearly defining the two)
Granted Ableton can just put VSTi support and call it cool as can be for simply triggering the instrument via a keyboard controller and recording the audio only!. That much would still be cool, but i think the overall general public is thinking that if they get vsti support there going to get a piano roll editor and little dots that trigger a synth.
datagroove (not confused- but i see your point on clearly defining the two)
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Guest
This is the first time i see users beggin a company _NOT_ to add new features. 
But i agree, midi sequencing in live may ruin the program. The program is almost perfect as it is, althoug some more loop editing options would be nice. I'm much more into pattern sequencing and algorithmic sequencing rather than the old and tired piano roll approach anyway.
I'm waiting for c74 to release Max/msp for windows. That way i can host Max via ReWire in Live. Max can in turn host Reaktor and other VST'is. This will probably be the most powerful combo in the history of music software.
For now, you can use Plogue Bidule but Max is way more mature.
But i agree, midi sequencing in live may ruin the program. The program is almost perfect as it is, althoug some more loop editing options would be nice. I'm much more into pattern sequencing and algorithmic sequencing rather than the old and tired piano roll approach anyway.
I'm waiting for c74 to release Max/msp for windows. That way i can host Max via ReWire in Live. Max can in turn host Reaktor and other VST'is. This will probably be the most powerful combo in the history of music software.
For now, you can use Plogue Bidule but Max is way more mature.
Btw, for those in need of one shot [and other ] sequencing needs ... there might be something around the corner ....
... was even announced/asked on this very forum ...http://www.mbazzy.tk -
Mbazzy's "The dysfunctional playground, a scrapbook a bout the shape of useless things" now OUT on Retinascan - http://www.retinascan.de
Mbazzy's "The dysfunctional playground, a scrapbook a bout the shape of useless things" now OUT on Retinascan - http://www.retinascan.de
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phil
I guess eveyone has their own requirements from a program but, for me, adding both MIDI and VSTi support would truly take Live onto another level.
I don't think it would spoil the concept of the program at all. What differentiates Live from Cubase, Sonar etc. is its concept of the "sequencing instrument" rather than traditional sequencers which are more like word processors for music. I would like to see the ability to trigger clips which contain MIDI sequences - these could be routed to VSTi instruments or via Midi Out ports to external MIDI gear. To me, this is an extension of the concept of the "sequencing instrument" rather than wanting Live to go mainstream.
Having said this, I accept that it would probably be best to introduce MIDI in stages eg. initially, the MIDI sequences could be assembled with other sotware and imported into Live. Similarly, detailed MIDI editing need not be a priority in much the same way that detailed editing of audio is not currently provided.
There seems to be some concern about Ableton's ability to deliver this kind of feature and maybe the problems with 2.0.1 have contributed to this. While I agree that issues such as solid MIDI sync have to be addressed first, we should also remember that this company have, in Live, developed a truly groundbreaking piece of software and personally I have confidence in their capacity to continue to develop it in an ambitious way.
Phil
I don't think it would spoil the concept of the program at all. What differentiates Live from Cubase, Sonar etc. is its concept of the "sequencing instrument" rather than traditional sequencers which are more like word processors for music. I would like to see the ability to trigger clips which contain MIDI sequences - these could be routed to VSTi instruments or via Midi Out ports to external MIDI gear. To me, this is an extension of the concept of the "sequencing instrument" rather than wanting Live to go mainstream.
Having said this, I accept that it would probably be best to introduce MIDI in stages eg. initially, the MIDI sequences could be assembled with other sotware and imported into Live. Similarly, detailed MIDI editing need not be a priority in much the same way that detailed editing of audio is not currently provided.
There seems to be some concern about Ableton's ability to deliver this kind of feature and maybe the problems with 2.0.1 have contributed to this. While I agree that issues such as solid MIDI sync have to be addressed first, we should also remember that this company have, in Live, developed a truly groundbreaking piece of software and personally I have confidence in their capacity to continue to develop it in an ambitious way.
Phil
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Guest
I agree,
Ableton should keep this program simple, It is great for Live use because of it's simplicity and adding to much to it will take away from that. If Ableton has plans in the future to add midi sequencing then Live should be made 100% bug free and as stable as can be before they even begain to think about adding vsti and midi sequencing. Maybe instead of adding the midi features to Live, Ableton can make a seperate vsti/midi host/sequencing program that will rewire to Live, so that people that don't want it don't get forced to pay for it by Ableton adding it to Live. For know it would be great if Ableton added more sample edit features that could be done from the clip view like being able to cut and trim a sample and maybe even re-arange the sample by clicking and draging bits of the sample and dropping it at a diffrent point in the sample.
Ableton Live is such a great program because it is a 1 of a kind program, so why would Ableton ruin that by trying to be like other programs
Ableton should keep this program simple, It is great for Live use because of it's simplicity and adding to much to it will take away from that. If Ableton has plans in the future to add midi sequencing then Live should be made 100% bug free and as stable as can be before they even begain to think about adding vsti and midi sequencing. Maybe instead of adding the midi features to Live, Ableton can make a seperate vsti/midi host/sequencing program that will rewire to Live, so that people that don't want it don't get forced to pay for it by Ableton adding it to Live. For know it would be great if Ableton added more sample edit features that could be done from the clip view like being able to cut and trim a sample and maybe even re-arange the sample by clicking and draging bits of the sample and dropping it at a diffrent point in the sample.
Ableton Live is such a great program because it is a 1 of a kind program, so why would Ableton ruin that by trying to be like other programs
I am so glad to hear Datagroove say this. There are plenty of other programs that do VSTi/MIDI. LIVE is all about working with AUDIO. Personally I am bored with VSTi/MIDI.
If I need to add a synth I have Reason.
If you want to work with VSTi/MIDI get Cubase. Any development time should be spent on making Live more stable or adding more audio tweaking ideas.
Even if Ableton wants to do VSTi/MIDI they should create a seperate program that could interface with Live (They could call it Alive or Enliven or whatever). Then if it was crappy those of us who don't need MIDI or VSTi would not get angry about ruining a great piece of software!
If I need to add a synth I have Reason.
If you want to work with VSTi/MIDI get Cubase. Any development time should be spent on making Live more stable or adding more audio tweaking ideas.
Even if Ableton wants to do VSTi/MIDI they should create a seperate program that could interface with Live (They could call it Alive or Enliven or whatever). Then if it was crappy those of us who don't need MIDI or VSTi would not get angry about ruining a great piece of software!
I am so happy to see that I am not the only one to wait for that : a SIMPLE, stable separate vsti host working in rewire slave mode, but not VSTi support directly into LIVE (I agree this is not the purpose of this wonderful software). Something like a "rewire-slave" V-stack would be absolutely great indeed (this is so bad V-stack is not "rewired"
). I would love to be able to JAM (I mean JAM not sequence!!!) with something like Lounge lizard EP-1, or other VSTi and record its audio output into LIVE. I can't believe such a simple product has not already been released!I know MAX/MSP is to be released for windows, but it looks like a quite a "complicate" stuff, and I hate wasting time struggling with a computer when I want to "start playing"
.http://www.defectiverecords.com/vstihost/findex.html
"Plans for upcoming versions include DirectConnect and ReWire support, enhanced effect routing, multiple VSTi support, and much more!"
I can't wait...
"Plans for upcoming versions include DirectConnect and ReWire support, enhanced effect routing, multiple VSTi support, and much more!"
I can't wait...
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fuentes925
- Posts: 106
- Joined: Mon Nov 04, 2002 4:05 am
- Location: U.S. California
Yes,
Ableton please keep Live sweet and simple. adding to much to Live well take away from it's friendly interface. It seems you may have many upset user if you were to add midi/vsti sequencing and complicate Lives interface. A rewire-able midi/vsti sequencer to work with Live may be best. That way the user will have the choose if they wan't that feature or not.
As said in a previous post:
Live is a 1 of a kind program, so don't ruin that by trying to be like other programs!
More is not always better
Ableton please keep Live sweet and simple. adding to much to Live well take away from it's friendly interface. It seems you may have many upset user if you were to add midi/vsti sequencing and complicate Lives interface. A rewire-able midi/vsti sequencer to work with Live may be best. That way the user will have the choose if they wan't that feature or not.
As said in a previous post:
Live is a 1 of a kind program, so don't ruin that by trying to be like other programs!
More is not always better