Live 8: no support for the Win 7???

[Harry_]

To my astonishment I got the information from
the Ableton that there aren´t any Live 8 support for the
Window 7 which has been in the market already about 2 years.

How come?

Of course you can say that in most of the cases all works but
in the difficult situations Ableton washes their hands because
it´s not "officially supported". I wonder when Windows 7, which is
better version on the Vista, is also included?

Harry

[loydb]

Damn, I was about to do a reformat with Win 7.

[dentaku]

Live 8 works fine in Win7 64bit for most people so you shouldn't have a problem as long as your audio interface has drivers for your OS. Basically, if it works in Vista it works in Win7. Like I always say, install ALL your VSTs in a folder outside of C:\Program Files(x86)\ like C:\VstPlugins\ for example and it should be fine. When people DO have problems it's usually with drivers and third party plug-ins, not Live itself.

Damn, I was about to do a reformat with Win 7.

[Harry_]

Live 8 works fine in Win7 64bit for most people so you shouldn't have a problem as long as your audio interface has drivers for your OS. Basically, if it works in Vista it works in Win7. Like I always say, install ALL your VSTs in a folder outside of C:\Program Files(x86)\ like C:\VstPlugins\ for example and it should be fine. When people DO have problems it's usually with drivers and third party plug-ins, not Live itself.

Damn, I was about to do a reformat with Win 7.

Dentaku´s comment won´t bring any new information for my statement: yes, it works in most of the cases but if you have trouble with Win 7 and some plugins e.g. Melodyne editor as I have, Ableton hides behind the "no official support" answer - this happened to me anyway. I think that such as major developer that Ableton should update their OS support quicker than every 3 year. H.

[dentaku]

I totally agree with that too.

I think that such as major developer that Ableton should update their OS support quicker than every 3 year. H.

[loydb]

I totally agree with that too.

I think that such as major developer that Ableton should update their OS support quicker than every 3 year. H.

I didn't actually say that...

[dentaku]

Oops, I guess I deleted to much of the original post made it look like it was a quote from you.

I totally agree with that too.

I think that such as major developer that Ableton should update their OS support quicker than every 3 year. H.

I didn't actually say that...

[Ableton_David]

As ShelLuser pointed out, the third-party plug-ins in use here often contribute to the issue: remember that these plug-ins need to be separately updated by their developers before they can work well in any hosting application in Windows 7.

That being said, the best course of action here is to contact Ableton Technical Support, in order to get individual help, as it's likely that your situations here are unique. You can contact support here: http://www.ableton.com/support. Thank you.

[esky]

Question: Which Windows 7 Version do i have to choose to have 3GB Ram accessible for Live 8 (like in XP Home its just 2 GB, if you want to use 3GB Ram in Live you have to upgrade to XP pro)? Or even more than 3GB? Thanks...

[Harry_]

As ShelLuser pointed out, the third-party plug-ins in use here often contribute to the issue: remember that these plug-ins need to be separately updated by their developers before they can work well in any hosting application in Windows 7.

That being said, the best course of action here is to contact Ableton Technical Support, in order to get individual help, as it's likely that your situations here are unique. You can contact support here: http://www.ableton.com/support. Thank you.

David, that´s what I did in the first place and got the reply below.
I think it´s fair to say that in generally I´ve got first class support from the Ableton, and my point wasn´t targeted to the service. H.
P.s Melodyne compability is something you could work with...and improving Live´s quantitization...and consider including notation editor, and ... (hope we don´t have to wait the major Live upgrade very long).

"Thanks for emailing Ableton. You are correct, Live is 32bit, and therefore you should install the 32bit versions of your VST's. VST2 or VST3 should not make a difference otherwise. Functionality of Melodyne in Live with Windows 7 is an area we do not officially support. The versions of Windows officially supported by Ableton Live are Windows XP and Windows Vista. This is not to say you can not use Live with Windows 7, but it is to say that we presently do not guarantee stability of Live in the Windows 7 environment. Feel free to contact us with any additional questions or concerns. All the best, Nick"

[djcl.ear]

Well, it is actually worst than only "no support for Win7"

It is no support for 64 bit OSs, which means ther is no support for RAM above 3 Gigas.
Plus all those big chunks of music to be routed cannot eficiently move thru the CPU logic... meaning that recent double CORE processors, 4 CORE processors or 8 CORE processors are also NOT supported, and the same happens with the multithreaded processing. You have it? not of any use in LIVE 6, 7 or 8.

LIVE is the typical program that in benchs will just use ONE core (and any existing other will be unused), so if you are planing to buy a nice Quadcore or a recent Hexacore, it will be a waist of money, cause LIVE engine will demand the work of just a single core.
So for actual coming performances you are probably better of with a single fast core runing near 4GHz (rather than multicore at nearing 2 GHz) provided -that is- that it also comes with speedy RAM and low latency HDDs or SSD. But they usually dont, cause those fast single processor units are OLD gear.

If you already have upgraded to a multicored CPU then your present hope is that the actual OS you are using has some smart info administration so it corrects old software (like LIVE) that have yet not upgraded its internal processing engine... but here lies the problem; that intelligent fast OS is Windows7 64 bit, not XP 32 bit.
What am I saying? That Ableton might hastly upgrade LIVE to make it *function* in Win7, but unless it does it taking advance of the multicore, mutithread architectures, it wont run at the excellent potential that is nowadays available. To reach this higher level, it will take time to Ableton (or third part) developers...in the meantime the OS could be handling some acceleration by itself and ease users need for processing power & speed. BUT This modern OS benefit cannot be had UNTIL LIVE is made to work in W7 64 bits, at least in a non-optimized functioning level.
And this basic step has to be taken by Ableton first...
I guess there are plenty of users/ptential users like us just waiting.

Its very ODD, the needs of Live performers/users are precisely what this new processing power delivers: Stability, plug-in handling power, wide multitrack support, multilayered routing, low latency...

The situation is like Laptop/PC and OS manufacturers have been building up ALL the right platforms, gear and complements that finally permit Ableton's LIVE to work easily and flawlesly almost regardless what hardware brand and model we decide to use...
But Ableton itself refuses to accept the forward push!!!
Looks like self-sabotaging, very strange indeed.

[Ableton_David]

Hi, just to clarify, as Live is 32-bit, it can actually use 4 gigabytes of RAM, not 3.

[djcl.ear]

Hi, just to clarify, as Live is 32-bit, it can actually use 4 gigabytes of RAM, not 3.

David, that would be correct on the case that Windows itself wouldn't need RAM to function,
which is far from true.

Despite the Win7 enhancements, windows still requires quite a lot of RAM in order to just breathe and function (XP and Vista occupy from 500 Mbs to near 1 Gb). Add all the other programs running in the back, notably all functioning device drivers, these will greatly tax the RAM availability when doing full-duplex routing or most anything else really...

[djcl.ear]

@Peter (ShelLuser): Swap files must reside on the Hard disk and that is; a)very slow, b)adds high latency c)competes with ALL music, info, programs needing to go to the CPU, which is ANYTHING that moves in a Laptop.
Physical RAM accesses rather directly the CPU, that's why is created very close aside the main CPU, and prior to the North & Southbridges that interface the rest (PCIe, SATA, USB,etc).

@Dentaku and all interested LIVE users: Let me rephrase my initial post in this thread:
Though LIVE may function in some basic set ups of Win7... it cannot utilize multicore CPUs(Central processing Units) which is the main source of processing power in your Laptop/PC. Also has NO use for multithreaded processing. DUO cores, Quadcores or recent Hexacores will be a waist of money, cause LIVE internal engine will demand and max the work of just a single core. Fast RAM nowadays approaching 2500 Mhz, 4Gb or 6 Gb in one stick? Neither of any use, even with LIVE 8. Your PC wont be able to deliver more than 3 (and fraction) Gbs to LIVE, cause its not 64 bit compatible.

Windows and Apple have realized that there will be old-designed software (like LIVE) for a while and so their last OSs (Operating Systems) have some smart programming that help distribute a bit the workload using several Cores. That smart comes with Windows7 64 bit, not with XP 32 bit. So no, LIVE wont use this facility neither.

A multitrack Software is the central tool of any DAW (Digital Audio Workstation). This kind of software TOPs the list of the most demanding programs amongst; gaming, video rendering, etc. and LIVE by definition aims to add the extra request to bring the power of a Multitrack program into actual live performances (hence its name)...
...Therefore to not take advantage of the quantic jump the PC technologies have achieved in the last three years is... either arrogant or miopic.
I'd risk to say it comes from some selfish atittudes from Ableton heads. Yes, they have improved the GUI functionality. Yes, they have added partner alliances and external hardware integration. Yes they bettered some algorythms. In sum, they have kept doing what they have done well from the beguining, however they hadn't shown openess to adopt new paths or reinforce those areas where they had not shown prowess early on.

Anyone reading just this support forum area, could see a long repetition of user's requests over and over and I estimate than more than 60% of the complaint threads would be solved just by allowing its internal architecture to take advantage of the low latency, sheer processing power from multicores, multithreading, 4, 6, 8, 12, 24 or more Gb of RAM ... all not attainable or stable by the actual LIVE versions being released.

ABLETON, wake up!!!