GEIST Available Now....

[delicioso]

The Maschine hardware seems more intuitive to me than the software. Anyway, thanks! Reading the manual now!

Yeah, I'm all about doing it all from the hardware.

[ouzoman]

Did Geist do away with the randomization slider present in Guru? Can't seem to locate it in the demo or any of the manual screenshots . . .

[UncleAge]

Yes it's missing. But Angus stated that it will be back in a future update.

edit: That was Paul not Angus I was quoting.

[ouzoman]

Thanks UncleAge - that's a dealbreaker for me if I ever decide to upgrade!

[icedsushi]

Ok I was just poking around over at the fxpansion forum & I found in words what Guru has that I can't seem to find out how to do efficiently in Maschine.

From here: http://www.fxpansion.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7574834

Maschine does not have an automatic sample layering feature like Geist (or RMV which also has a choice of layering features such as logarithmic or linear with velocity). Also, though there are work-arounds, there is no way in Maschine to layer samples on a single pad so that two samples have different effects.

Multiple layers on a single pad with different FX settings per layer is something I do a lot with Guru. So far this seems harder to achieve efficiently in Maschine or needs to be done using more than one pad. I could very well be missing something though. Playing around with Maschine again soon to try to figure this out.

[delicioso]

Ok I was just poking around over at the fxpansion forum & I found in words what Guru has had I can't seem to find out how to do efficiently in Maschine:

"Maschine does not have an automatic sample layering feature like Geist (or RMV which also has a choice of layering features such as logarithmic or linear with velocity). Also, though there are work-arounds, there is no way in Maschine to layer samples on a single pad so that two samples have different effects."

Multiple layers on a single pad with different FX settings per layer is something I do a lot with Guru. So far this seems harder to achieve efficiently in Maschine or needs to be done using more than one pad. I could very well be missing something though. Playing around with Maschine again soon to try to figure this out.

NI said this back in July:
"We also plan to have a "Pad Link" feature in the next update that will be an easy alternative way to layer sounds."
http://co.native-instruments.com/forum/ ... post709964

The current way to link pads on Maschine:
http://www.native-instruments.com/forum ... p?t=110584

[icedsushi]

Ok, so technically it can be done in Maschine by setting pads to the same midi note. But even after pad link arrives you use up a pad for every layer so it's not as elegant. So let's say you have one drum hit that contains 4 layers, you've just used up 4 of your pads for one drum hit, right?

[delicioso]

Ok, so technically it can be done in Maschine by setting pads to the same midi note. But even after pad link arrives you use up a pad for every layer so it's not as elegant. So let's say you have one drum hit that contains 4 layers, you've just used up 4 of your pads for one drum hit, right?

If you want to have independent control/fx over each sample while layering, yes, although I personally don't have a need to layer that many samples. You can also layer up to 128 samples on one pad, in the Sampling page under Map.

What's funny is that with the new plugin hosting, you will now have the option to have an instance of Battery or Geist on a single pad on Maschine!

[nathannn]

and here we go again..
another post of another redundant plug in.

you are banned!

[CR78]

As OP I like that this thread decided to sort of 'off-road' it and discuss what's missing/the state of fxpansion/maschine etc...

I always enjoy following a good debate WHEN valid points are brought up.

Maybe Fx should have just named it 'Redundant' and called it a day..

@nathann: from here on out you will be endearingly referred to as 'Sheesh'

[starving student]

Ok, so technically it can be done in Maschine by setting pads to the same midi note. But even after pad link arrives you use up a pad for every layer so it's not as elegant. So let's say you have one drum hit that contains 4 layers, you've just used up 4 of your pads for one drum hit, right?

yes this is one of the things that sucks about Maschine but is no way a deal breaker, I need the same type of layering and ease, encouragement of a layering feature that you're looking for outside of an mpc
Maschine won't do it yet but the folks over at ni are not hard headed and I believe that the padlink feature
they are implementing will be great for simoult functions but I don't think they are gonna stop there with the layering. I myself and others have told them multiple times that this won't cut it. as a matter of fact the current nature of layering on maschine kind of goes against maschines own ethos so I believe they would have come to a better conclusion eventually anyway. I'd be suprised if it wasn't taken care of in the next update or at least in the one after that. They now know we want to move quickly through those layers, editing them, effecting them and whatever else, it would be stupid for maschine to fail in this regard now that they have a better understanding of what beatmachine layering should entail, they were going about it like layering on a softsynth........yuck, but that was before and this is now and believe me when I say the near now will be much better.

[Machinesworking]

Want! <3

[UncleAge]

Maybe Fx should have just named it 'Redundant' and called it a day..

I don't know if redundant is the term I would use. I continued to use Guru after I bought Live because I liked the workflow. It's also the main thing I hear from Maschine users, they really like the workflow. Now I've only had the Geist demo for a few hours but I will admit that they did add quite a few nice touches that really add to the experience. It's better than Guru in almost every aspect.

I just think they have priced it wrong in the market. Of course my opinion doesn't really matter.

[icedsushi]

yes this is one of the things that sucks about Maschine but is no way a deal breaker, I need the same type of layering and ease, encouragement of a layering feature that you're looking for outside of an mpc
Maschine won't do it yet but the folks over at ni are not hard headed and I believe that the padlink feature
they are implementing will be great for simoult functions but I don't think they are gonna stop there with the layering

Pad layering with different edit/FX settings per layer is the #1 reason I've gone to use Guru over the years and I this as it's most important feature. Regardless it's regarded as an old skool MPC technique or not, with this you can come up with completely new sounds from the same original sounds. It's something I might have taken for granted but now that I think about it, there's not much in software that quite does it like this. The way it's implemented in Guru, not only is is able to do this but it's quick & efficient to do, which is really important! If being able to do this quick & efficiently weren't important you could just mix the samples using Simpler or Impulse & render the mix & drag that back onto a pad. But it would take a heck of a lot longer & would require building up & managing a new sample library. With Guru, you don't need to render each hit or take extra time doing workarounds & you retain the flexibility to go back & tweak the mix of the layers later on.

If it weren't for this, I could get 90% of everything done just as quickly in Impulse or Drum Racks. Pad layering is a big thing for me that I use a lot. Workarounds with multiple pads & pad link don't seem anywhere near as elegant to me, so I agree that so far I don't see it as a substitute. As I continue to use Maschine more & more, I'm really hoping to see an efficient layers concept fully implemented in a future update to Maschine. Until then, this will probably continue to be the sole reason Maschine won't fully replace Guru (Geist) for me.

A secondary reason I have used Guru is for the quality of the built in effects which I think is quite good. So far I think Maschine has some nice effects too which are good in their own way, but the Guru effects (like the compressor settings for example) seem more tailored for drums or sounds with an attack to them.

[kb420]

GEIST = FAIL.