Guitar ADSR Envelope, pls help.

[LeifonMars]

Try side chaining guitars own signal to compressor.

[Pasha]

Try side chaining guitars own signal to compressor.

Can you explain more on this? Sounds interesting...

[LeifonMars]

Try side chaining guitars own signal to compressor.

Can you explain more on this? Sounds interesting...

Yep, route the gtr's signal also into the side channel of the compressor, wank the settings. Just an idea, never tried it before, could work though. And don't you roll on me, just trying to come up with a solution. Not the real ADSR, but might be smoother than gate.

[LeifonMars]

Try side chaining guitars own signal to compressor.

Can you explain more on this? Sounds interesting...

Yep, route the gtr's signal also into the side channel of the compressor, wank the settings. Just an idea, never tried it before, could work though. And don't you roll on me, just trying to come up with a solution. Not the real ADSR, but might be smoother than gate.

Tried it with sample instrument (not in the studio right now, so can't try it with real gtr): makes interesting result, there is a tiny snap before ducking effect kicks in.

1. Route the input of your gtr also to the sidechain input of the compressor. Make sure the side chain input gtr signal is pre fx as dry as possible, so it will decay very fast, otherwise the ducking effect won't release at all.
2. set attack 0,01 ms, release to you liking maybe 2- 3 ms
3. threshold very low, somewhere around - 52 db
4. Ratio infinite
5. apply radical sustain compression before the ducking compression so there will be signal left as the ducking effect releases

Might work with real gtr as well, give it a go

Sounds very much like reversed

[chris vine]

Yes, octave pedals are monophonic, but the pitch effect (in the zoom fx, for example) will work with chords.

[Pasha]

Yes, octave pedals are monophonic, but the pitch effect (in the zoom fx, for example) will work with chords.

Mmmm, got to try that!

[Simbosan]

I've tried a few auto-volume effects and it all sounds like a great idea until you use it and you realise that what you really want is different speeds of attack so that when you play faster the sound ramps up faster, but slower for long chords. I've always found them a bit crap. Volume pedal is the best way to go, it's easy and gives you all the expression you want.

I did have an idea of using a breath controller to hooked up via midi somehow to control the volume, not sure if that's possible? But if it was it would be quite interesting. You can buy simple headset style breathcontrollers pretty cheap and then you could get some pretty interesting effects I reckon especially if you could learn to flutter/growl, but still, a volume pedal would be simplest.

S

[Pasha]

I've tried a few auto-volume effects and it all sounds like a great idea until you use it and you realise that what you really want is different speeds of attack so that when you play faster the sound ramps up faster, but slower for long chords. I've always found them a bit crap. Volume pedal is the best way to go, it's easy and gives you all the expression you want.

I did have an idea of using a breath controller to hooked up via midi somehow to control the volume, not sure if that's possible? But if it was it would be quite interesting. You can buy simple headset style breathcontrollers pretty cheap and then you could get some pretty interesting effects I reckon especially if you could learn to flutter/growl, but still, a volume pedal would be simplest.

S

You're right.
For lush pads I need a slow attack and that is currently a problem in Ableton.
I have used a cascade of gates at 150 ms attack and I'm getting close albeit some
quirks. A cascade of gate is not exactly a continuous attack of 450 ms!
Gate fx is very good when you want to diminish the attack for sound design starting
from your guitar. I was working on a flute sound yesterday and it really helped.
The transient should drive the envelope speed and attack but I have found nothing
like that so far. I have also tried GR4 with its Envelope and Modulation stuff but
still away from what I need. I am looking at M4L now that 189 Euros after the rebate
is a more reasonable price but I'm afraid the learning curve might be too much for me.
At the moment Zebrify is king and Urs told us customers that is working on envelope
trigger via audio and not only MIDI as it is today. Knowing Urs, worth the wait.
Ernie Ball and Morley Pedals sell around 100 Euros but my feeling is that Ernie Ball
build is better. Any suggestion?

- Best
- Pasha

[Tone Deft]

Pasha - did you try posting on a guitar forum? guitar geekery runs deep, this forum is more electronic music oriented.

[Simbosan]

Morley pedals were absolutely the best you could buy when I were a lad, built like tanks. Didn't they have some high tech system like lasers or somethin? I'm sure they are still very good.

EDIT: Mr Deft speaks sooth also

Trouble with auto effects is that they haven't patented time travel yet, so they dunno how long/short your note is going to be or how fast you are going to play. What would be possible would be a post-processor that went back over your track and set the volume envelope. That would be kewl.

S

[Pasha]

Pasha - did you try posting on a guitar forum? guitar geekery runs deep, this forum is more electronic music oriented.

Not so far. Any suggestion?

this forum is more electronic music oriented

TD, this is a bold statement. Seems like Live is not good for anything else,while we know it isn't true!
Sorry to be boring with my Guitar questions but I thought that Guitar + Ableton was allowed...

[Tone Deft]

Pasha - you have me completely backwards. I often rant that electronic music gets too much attention around here and I often post about using a guitar with Live. electronic music isn't even a top selling genre, it's not as popular as the people here make it out to be. IMO.


haven't been on guitar sites for a while, there's www.wholenote.com and www.guitar.com, the latter has gone through changes. not to mention www.soundonsound.com, kvr etc, the bigger sites similar to the crowd here.

[speak_onion]

2 things to try:

1) I know you already mentioned using a gate, but what you might want to do is first set up a compressor that gives you a lot of sustain, and put a gate with a long attack time after the comp but triggered off the clean signal. That should work better than just a gate with a long attack time.

2) mda's "Envelope" is a free plugin that does this. I haven't used it in a long while, but I remember it working.

[Pasha]

Pasha - you have me completely backwards. I often rant that electronic music gets too much attention around here and I often post about using a guitar with Live. electronic music isn't even a top selling genre, it's not as popular as the people here make it out to be. IMO.

I see... Sorry for any misunderstanding. Now we got it right, Guitars rule the world.
There are actually more Guitars than keyboards out there and as you said once ' A guitar is the best
analog controller one could buy'! Respect.

I'll check on some of the sites thanks! Today I have posted on Vg Forum a dedicated VG99 place.
VG99 seems a very good option to me. However, with Zebrify to modify the guitar output
at its core and all Live fx I'm getting good results.
Pads with Guitar can be achieved by using only Live SUite Fx, while solos need Zebrify.
BTW do you own Zebra? I think I'll share something at the end of this sound design experience
involving a Fender oscillator...

[Syncretia]

Here are some free ADSR envelopes:
http://freemusicsoftware.org/category/f ... /envelopes

Mostly PC but some are Mac.

I just googled ADSR VST.

Failing that, you can use an ADSR in MaxForLive if you have it. It's very simple in MaxForLive.

This is something very simple. A lot of the other comments here have lead the OP astray. A normal ADSR envelope may or may not produce the same effect as a Boss Pedal. But, by experimenting with different VSTs, and settings, you will find that you are able to get pretty close, or at least get a very interesting sound out of your guitar recordings.