Utility Phase

[davidpag]

Hello:

I have read somewhere that you can take an audio file on a track duplicate it, invert the phase for each track (in Live use Utility) and they will cancel each other out (silence). I have tried this and it works although the objective was to hopefully extract the vocal from the file. I have found a portion of the audio file (4 bars prior to the start of the vocal) whereas the audio is the same but it basically just sounds like its phasing (flangey type sound like the dj trick)

Does anyone know or tried this and could provide some advice?

Thank you very much,
Cheers!

[mattadms]

Hello:
whereas the audio is the same but it basically just sounds like its phasing (flangey type sound like the dj trick)

I guess you need to move one of the clips a very little (or mess around with the track delay), the flanging kind of effect often occurs when one track is off by a certain degree.

[davidpag]

Yeah I tried that (adjusting track delay) but still doesnt achieve the goal of canceling out all that is similar between them except for the vocal (only on one of the tracks)

[mattadms]

Ah well, I havent really thought about my reply, I'm sorry.

I guess it wont work because the audio part 4 bars ahead is probably slightly different than the one with the vocals... although it sounds more or less the same, the chances that both parts are a 100% identical are rather low except if the producer was working with just "4-bar"-loops (to simplify it)

[davidpag]

well its an old Chicago house record that was probably made using short 8sec samplers/drum machines The part before the vocal is no doubt identical.

[massenmedium]

No, to completely cancel it needs to be IDENTICAL.

If it's a different part of the audio it very likely won't be, especially if it's an old track that was probably recorded and mastered in an analogue fashion.

[Angstrom]

also, it sounds like you are doing the phase cancellation trick incorrectly

to 'delete' vocals from a track, or at least, to kill off the center-only info in the stereo signal: drop a utility on a track playing music, and set the utility to %200 width. this subtracts L from R and R from L , leaving only stereo difference. IE: what is uncommon to both. The center is obviously common to both so is subtracted. Anyway, try it.

To extract vocals from a track, or to attempt to make a ghetto Acappella - which kinda, sorta, works depending on situation but you have to be really lucky.
Same as above(utility at 200%), but make the Utility into a chain in a rack, now make a new chain and drop a new Utility in there. On the new Utility invert the phase of both channels.
This subtracts L & R from (L=L-R)&(R=R-L) leaving you with just the center channel.

As I said, you will get a stronger vocal mix from this, but it will be along with everything else which was central in the mix. IE: a big kick, a bassline and lots of other central information. Probably a snare drum right in your face. Ghetto acappella method. Crappy but occasionally, occasionally works .

[Tarekith]

Make sure you're not warping the audio too, it'll never cancel then.

[davidpag]

Thanks everyone for the various inputs and suggestions. I figure I was doing it wrong and the reason I asked, thx.

@Angstrom: I see what your saying. I gave the first part a try and it did more or less extract the vocal. Trying the second part basically didnt work because the whole track is central.

Now I read about this before (I think computer music way back) but in general it would never work because bass/Kick are always central, no? Maybe you just have to get lucky as you said.

Cheers!