Anyone Using Cycling '74 Products? What Do You Think?

Hypomixolydian · Post by **Hypomixolydian** » Tue May 24, 2005 12:22 am

As the header says, anyone out there using cycling '74 products and what do you think of them?
They are now available for Windows and I remember reading good reviews about them, so I am interested in user opinions. How does it rate compared to say Reaktor?
Is Pluggo worth buying if you buy MAX/MSP? What are the differences between the two (Pluggo and MAX/MSP)?

Thanks in advance for your responses.

AdamJay · Post by **AdamJay** » Tue May 24, 2005 12:43 am

Astral Fridge Magnet wrote:As the header says, anyone out there using cycling '74 products and what do you think of them?
They are now available for Windows and I remember reading good reviews about them, so I am interested in user opinions. How does it rate compared to say Reaktor?
Is Pluggo worth buying if you buy MAX/MSP? What are the differences between the two (Pluggo and MAX/MSP)?

Thanks in advance for your responses.

MAX/MSP is a development environment. This is used to make your own software audio tools.

Pluggo is a huge bundle of somewhat small, niche plugins. And a runtime environment for running some 3rd party plugins. The cycling 74 webpage explains the functions and purposes of these two seperate softwares pretty well.

I can't really say Pluggo compares to Reaktor because it isn't very similar at all. But, i do love Pluggo. 110+ plugins in that collection for $199, and i've had no issues with them on OSX (i use the AU's) in Live 4. Certainly Pluggo + Bidule could give you some wierd modularness a'la Reaktor, but its apples and oranges.

if you'e a nine inch nails fan, the first 3 notes on the new album are clearly Pluggo's LoFi Drums kick/snare/hat. I don't think this has been advertised but its pretty damn obvious.

and there are great free and payware plugins out there that run under the pluggo runtime. JK-Satoo is a good 3 band free saturator. and the www.tritonedigital.com guys use Pluggo for Hydratone and Valvetone, which may very well be the best EQ's i've ever heard on a computer.

Hypomixolydian · Post by **Hypomixolydian** » Tue May 24, 2005 1:18 am

Thanks for your response AdamJay.

As far as I can make out, MAX/MSP seems kind of Reaktor like but even more "sophisticated", or have I got that wrong?
If it is kind of similar to Reaktor, how do they compare? Which is the easier to use? The "better" sounding? Key differences etc....
Pluggo, I can see are a bunch of plug ins, which seem quite interesting and I suppose for 110 plugins at 199 dollars, that seems good value!!! I also see they have something called MODE, which also looks interesting.
But, lets say you had to choose between MAX/MSP and Pluggo. Which would you go for? Ready made Pluggo (less hassle and ready to go), or something expandable like MAX/MSP (maybe complicated to use but perhaps more open ended). And can Max/MSP create equivalent if not better than what is available in Pluggo?
Lots of questions , I know.

Again thanks in advance for your response(s)

NewAndImprov · Post by **NewAndImprov** » Tue May 24, 2005 1:21 am

I use Pluggo, and recently got Mode. I used to do a bunch of development in Max/MSP, but haven't upgraded my license in a few years, I don't have Max for either OSX or Windows at the moment.

I wouldn't say that any of Cycling '74's products directly compete with Reaktor. The building blocks in Reaktor at a higher level than what Max/MSP provides. You could probably build the equivalent of anything in Reaktor with Max, given enough time and caffiene, but it'd take a lot more effort. But, at the same time, I can imagine there's a lot you can do in Max that is completely beyond what Reaktor is capable of.

The main reason I stopped using Max was because I just didn't have the time or energy to develop stuff within it. At the time, I was programming for a living, and when I got home and could do music, the last thing I wanted to do was write more code.

Pluggo and Mode are both collections of pre-made plugins made in Max. I love both of them, Pluggo has some purely crazy effects that I couldn't live without. Mode, on the surface, looks pretty limited, but as you start working with the collection, it's depth and capabilities become apparent. The analog-style drum synth in Mode has some of the best-sounding kicks I have heard anywhere, hardware or software. Mode has a rather high CPU hit on my windows machine (1.8G Pentium), but is still useable. Mode feels faster on my G5.

AdamJay · Post by **AdamJay** » Tue May 24, 2005 1:24 am

yea a good analogy would be...

Reaktor = Typing my post in this forum and sharing my thoughts with you.
This forum has the tools i need. I can bold text, add links, etc.
I'm building my post out of the tools Reaktor is giving me.

MAX/MSP = Developing the phpBB code that this forum runs on.
much lower level (read: "adavanced") programming.

AdamJay · Post by **AdamJay** » Tue May 24, 2005 1:29 am

Astral Fridge Magnet wrote: But, lets say you had to choose between MAX/MSP and Pluggo. Which would you go for? Ready made Pluggo (less hassle and ready to go), or something expandable like MAX/MSP (maybe complicated to use but perhaps more open ended). And can Max/MSP create equivalent if not better than what is available in Pluggo?
Lots of questions , I know.

I would go with Pluggo. because as of right now, i have no interest in development in terms of getting my hands dirty with coding, and in the Max/Msp scenario that means getting my hands dirty with Java script. and if theres a little plugin i want to make, i just call Sqook up and have him whip it together for me

Max/MSP can create pretty much anything you want to create. Just like C++ can, or Python, or several other languages/environments. Certainly you could create far more complex plugins with Max/MSP than is available in Pluggo. Because many of the Pluggo plugins are simple plugins that do specific things (extremely well!)

NewAndImprov · Post by **NewAndImprov** » Tue May 24, 2005 1:35 am

Astral Fridge Magnet wrote:Thanks for your response AdamJay.

As far as I can make out, MAX/MSP seems kind of Reaktor like but even more "sophisticated", or have I got that wrong?
If it is kind of similar to Reaktor, how do they compare? Which is the easier to use? The "better" sounding? Key differences etc....

I don't really use Reaktor, but from my impression, Max is more like a real object-oreinted development platform. I'd imagine Reaktor is much easier to use, but you could potentially build anything you could imagine in Max.

Pluggo, I can see are a bunch of plug ins, which seem quite interesting and I suppose for 110 plugins at 199 dollars, that seems good value!!! I also see they have something called MODE, which also looks interesting.
But, lets say you had to choose between MAX/MSP and Pluggo. Which would you go for? Ready made Pluggo (less hassle and ready to go), or something expandable like MAX/MSP (maybe complicated to use but perhaps more open ended). And can Max/MSP create equivalent if not better than what is available in Pluggo?

Everything in Pluggo and Mode was made in Max, so yes. But everything in Pluggo is right there and ready for you to use, while Max is more like, "Here's a bunch of tools, build what you need." I had high ambitions about all the cool custom stuff I was going to build in Max, but eventually decided it wasn;t for me, at least at that time. Pluggo is tons of fun, pretty much all the wierd and wacky processors you need.

Mode is really ruling my world right now. I had a little extra $ recently and was trying to decide between Operator and Mode. Mode is cheaper and gives you way more, so I went with it and am totally happy.

FaX-01 · Post by **FaX-01** » Tue May 24, 2005 1:49 am

AdamJay wrote:yea a good analogy would be...

Reaktor = Typing my post in this forum and sharing my thoughts with you.
This forum has the tools i need. I can bold text, add links, etc.
I'm building my post out of the tools Reaktor is giving me.

MAX/MSP = Developing the phpBB code that this forum runs on.
much lower level (read: "adavanced") programming.

My understanding is that Reaktor's new core technology in V5.0 makes it a low level programming application also now .

AdamJay · Post by **AdamJay** » Tue May 24, 2005 1:57 am

FaX-01 wrote: My understanding is that Reaktor's new core technology in V5.0 makes it a low level programming application also now .

well. i would say R5 is lowER level than R4.
i wouldn't call it a low level programming environment though.
friend of mine was on the beta team, i checked it out for a day. lots of good stuff, but it really only goes as low as it needs to for its users.

I should be getting Reaktor 5 in about a week.

Hypomixolydian · Post by **Hypomixolydian** » Tue May 24, 2005 1:58 am

Thanks to both AdamJay and NewAndImprov for your responses. I guess I will go for Pluggo. I don't fancy getting into complicated (for me) stuff like coding etc... I am still trying to get my head around Reaktor. So more learning curves just means less time making music. Plus the fact that I still really need to learn loads of other software that I have. But seeing I have a healthy tax return this year, I thought I'd treat myself on something. So I guess Pluggo it is. I am trying the demo and I like what I hear.

AdamJay · Post by **AdamJay** » Tue May 24, 2005 2:02 am

also demo the EQs at ww.tritonedigital.com
as mentioned earlier, they run under the pluggo runtime. and are pc/mac.

if you like analog style EQ, they are the best i'd say. and i'm so pissed that i missed out on the group buy that 190 people did, getting both plugs for $89

and there are some free pluggos here.. http://www.sonoria.pl/jk/pluggox.html
(edit - oops, osx/os9 only)

Hypomixolydian · Post by **Hypomixolydian** » Tue May 24, 2005 2:32 am

AdamJay wrote:
and there are some free pluggos here.. http://www.sonoria.pl/jk/pluggox.html
(edit - oops, osx/os9 only)

What a shame they don't run under Windows.

computo · Post by **computo** » Tue May 24, 2005 5:27 am

comparisons are useless with these programs. Download and try Max, but only do it if you are ready to learn the program, otherwise dont waste your time. The tutorials are vastly helpful. Max has a month free demo, so try it. I am hopelessly addicted and I use it Live all the time.

Its the shit, especially if you always wanted a piece of gear to do something it doesnt. With Max you can make gear do anything.

Anyone Using Cycling '74 Products? What Do You Think?

Anyone Using Cycling '74 Products? What Do You Think?

Re: Anyone Using Cycling '74 Products? What Do You Think?