Who uses presets?

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
pepezabala
Posts: 3499
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2004 4:29 pm
Location: In Berlin, finally

Re: Who uses presets?

Post by pepezabala » Mon Nov 29, 2010 8:39 am

3phase wrote:
mholloway wrote:
In the end of the day the consumers on the floor have a better ear for that than the dj´s.. when the music gets to generic the clubs get empty..less dj´s booked..less records sold..
I really doubt that. The most popular clubs are the ones where the most generic house music is played. It's not like people would leave the club when the DJ plays Daft Punk. Or is it like that?

3phase
Posts: 4648
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2003 3:29 am
Contact:

Re: Who uses presets?

Post by 3phase » Mon Nov 29, 2010 8:44 am

pepezabala wrote:
3phase wrote:
mholloway wrote:
In the end of the day the consumers on the floor have a better ear for that than the dj´s.. when the music gets to generic the clubs get empty..less dj´s booked..less records sold..
I really doubt that. The most popular clubs are the ones where the most generic house music is played. It's not like people would leave the club when the DJ plays Daft Punk. Or is it like that?
daftpunk in a club? uhhhh.. not really happening. and at least not 2 times in a row..

do daftpunk use presets?
mac book 2,16 ghz 4(3)gb ram, Os 10.62, fireface 400,

alex.the.forge
Posts: 1424
Joined: Wed Apr 16, 2008 4:29 am

Re: Who uses presets?

Post by alex.the.forge » Mon Nov 29, 2010 8:44 am

3phase wrote:
alex.the.forge wrote:who populate forums like this.

Madonna used an Abba track, Janet Jackson sampled Sly Stone, Oasis didn't even bother sampling John lennon's imagine, they just played it themselves with a couple of notes missing…..

and whos tracks has abba used? and sly stone sampled which other artist? and john lenon? just because people do lame things dont justifies doing them aswell. its like shitting in the little forrest before the city. and because you do it everybody starts doing it..after 1 year the litlle forrest is called a swamp and dont smells good anymore.
AHA! I get why 3phase is such a grumpy bugger! He's Shrek! ;-)

davepermen
Posts: 2198
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 3:38 pm
Location: Switzerland
Contact:

Re: Who uses presets?

Post by davepermen » Mon Nov 29, 2010 8:47 am

pepezabala wrote:
3phase wrote:
mholloway wrote:
In the end of the day the consumers on the floor have a better ear for that than the dj´s.. when the music gets to generic the clubs get empty..less dj´s booked..less records sold..
I really doubt that. The most popular clubs are the ones where the most generic house music is played. It's not like people would leave the club when the DJ plays Daft Punk. Or is it like that?
not in 3phase's world. they only play stupid minimal-techno there that is all the same.. oh wait, all the same? and the clubs are not empty?


in other news, thanks for alex for giving all of us a way to imagine 3phase :)
http://davepermen.net my tiny webpage, including link to bandcamp.

Machinesworking
Posts: 11124
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2004 9:30 pm
Location: Seattle

Re: Who uses presets?

Post by Machinesworking » Mon Nov 29, 2010 10:26 am

Rationalizer wrote:Well what's the point of presets if you don't use them? I've got NI's Komplete with 8000+ presets. So I simply tweak them to my taste and use them with good conscience :)
I also have Komplete, plus Kore which makes preset browsing dead easy.
Thing is I almost always have a sound in my head when I'm looking for a preset, and it's rare if even in the 8000+ presets in Kore is it there and ready for me. I use and have always used presets as a starting point, and often the result sounds nothing like the original except some basic framework thing like it's a bass sound with a sharp attack.

There is something to be said for the process of creating something from scratch though as far as removing in a very real way yourself from the collage cut and paste ethic of a lot of dance music, and maybe just maybe getting further towards creating original and unique music? No guarantees, but the mind is a trainable computer language in a way, and using a cool sound in a supremely popular tool set like Komplete is almost guaranteeing that your song will have the same tones as other artists. Not that it's a bad thing to have similarities to genres you like, but IMO one thing that's been disappointing in
electronic music for the last ten years really is there's this total explosion of PCs becoming ultra powerhouses with actually really great sounding soft synths and samplers, yet it's impossible to tell 99% of the songs from 99% of the musicians out there from each other.
Also, it's really fun to actually know a synth like Absynth or Zebra 2 to the point to where you can come up with patches you like better than the presets!

TL;DR It's no big deal to use presets IMO, (especially if you tweak them a bit) unless you end up sounding too homogenous as a result.

fx23
Posts: 798
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2009 3:23 pm

Re: Who uses presets?

Post by fx23 » Mon Nov 29, 2010 10:50 am

about daft punk using presets, maybe no, it's imo worst than that:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJPdVVOmbz4

Freedombeats
Posts: 21
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2009 11:47 am
Contact:

Re: Who uses presets?

Post by Freedombeats » Mon Nov 29, 2010 12:24 pm

There's no rules in music

Machinesworking
Posts: 11124
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2004 9:30 pm
Location: Seattle

Re: Who uses presets?

Post by Machinesworking » Mon Nov 29, 2010 12:50 pm

fx23 wrote:about daft punk using presets, maybe no, it's imo worst than that:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJPdVVOmbz4
Up to interpretation. IMO The Bomb Squad were total geniuses at cut and pasting samples from other songs into Public Enemy songs, and Daft Punk do a pretty good job too, though I have to admit more at the MC Hammer lifting the entire riff of Super Freak level than the Bomb Squad.
The Prodigy with Firestarter and Smack My Bitch Up used gratuitous amounts of song snips, but to say that Firestarter for instance sounds anything like the Breeders is stretching it even if a Breeders sample is part of the main riff.

Machinesworking
Posts: 11124
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2004 9:30 pm
Location: Seattle

Re: Who uses presets?

Post by Machinesworking » Mon Nov 29, 2010 12:56 pm

Freedombeats wrote:There's no rules in music
This is true, but it's devoid of any and all critical thinking.
It's also true that the individual can release a whole recording of homogenous easily digestible music devoid of any soul or personality, and that certain examples can be given that are dammed hard to defend as anything remotely near art or more than marketing tools to secure cash flow from young insecure teenage girls.

fx23
Posts: 798
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2009 3:23 pm

Re: Who uses presets?

Post by fx23 » Mon Nov 29, 2010 1:01 pm

Up to interpretation
certainly it is.
the main difference is prodigy weren't lamers and did a very re-creative work using looaaads of samples,
wich by the way were quite transformed during the processus.

I had to do a 2D/3D GFX for a french music show Opening Title called 'Traffic Music'.
they wanted us do use daftPunk, when i discovered they were using samples. the last song you see on vid.
I compared with original, for more than 8 bars it's EXACTLY the same stuff, only mastered.
they didn't used various differents samples, but a more than 8 bar complete loop with drums, bass, guitar and synth.
I suggested the Tv channel to pay the original artist then apply a slight mastering, that would cost them
about 50x less than what would have asked the lamers hype label.
Call this the way you like im calling this insane plagia.

Machinesworking
Posts: 11124
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2004 9:30 pm
Location: Seattle

Re: Who uses presets?

Post by Machinesworking » Mon Nov 29, 2010 1:17 pm

fx23 wrote:
Up to interpretation
certainly it is.
the main difference is prodigy weren't lamers and did a very re-creative work using looaaads of samples,
wich by the way were quite transformed during the processus.

I had to do a 2D/3D GFX for a french music show Opening Title called 'Traffic Music'.
they wanted us do use daftPunk, when i discovered they were using samples. the last song you see on vid.
I compared with original, for more than 8 bars it's EXACTLY the same stuff, only mastered.
they didn't used various differents samples, but a more than 8 bar complete loop with drums, bass, guitar and synth.
I suggested the Tv channel to pay the original artist then apply a slight mastering, that would cost them
about 50x less than what would have asked the lamers hype label.
Call this the way you like im calling this insane plagia.
No argument here. I thought MC Hammer in many ways was the death of real creative riff lifting because he used the full meal deal instead of incorporating it into his own music. When I finally broke down and got a few modern french disco records to check out, I thought/think Justice did a much better job than Daft Punk. Sampling an arcane Devo synth bit from an early video they made, not even part of a song, was pretty slick.

3phase
Posts: 4648
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2003 3:29 am
Contact:

Re: Who uses presets?

Post by 3phase » Mon Nov 29, 2010 1:40 pm

Freedombeats wrote:There's no rules in music

really? and what is with all theese style boundarys and harmony rules? or rules what is considred cool and uncool? or political correct.. or even legal and unlegal, like using uncleared samples or lyrics?

there are quite a few rules and breaking them has more or less possible consequences.. using presets is not unlegal but its pretty lame so you live with the risk beeing called a lamer.
mac book 2,16 ghz 4(3)gb ram, Os 10.62, fireface 400,

davepermen
Posts: 2198
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 3:38 pm
Location: Switzerland
Contact:

Re: Who uses presets?

Post by davepermen » Mon Nov 29, 2010 1:42 pm

then again, being called a lamer by 3phase is a compliment.

not that i use presets much myself. but i don't bash those that do.
http://davepermen.net my tiny webpage, including link to bandcamp.

Der_Makrophag
Posts: 377
Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2005 11:06 am

Re: Who uses presets?

Post by Der_Makrophag » Mon Nov 29, 2010 2:05 pm

sporkles wrote:Up until recently, I always, with the exception of, I don't know, five sounds or so, created all my synth sounds more or less from scratch. I've mostly been using "down to earth" synths, like Sylenth1, the Reason synths, etc, and lately Operator. A few weeks ago, I got a pretty sweet deal on an NI bundle, which included Absynth 4, FM8, Massive and Pro-53. I jumped at it because of the price (about €180 for the lot), but I'm not particularly interested in spending a lot of time learning new synths. The presets are simply mind-blowing, though, so I was wondering: does anyone in here frequently use preset sounds in their music?

I'm tempted to use some of Absynth's soundscapes to "pad" my music, but I can't help but feeling it's cheating a bit. Then again, didn't someone identify the opening sound on Lost as a preset on some VSTi? And do you reckon a preset on a synth is comparable to using a particular traditional instrument?

Thoughts?

I ALWAYS patch my synths from scratch. Also the NI ones. I admit that my sounds are not as good as the presets, but it is the only way to get in touch with a synth. And I like to have a synth to synthesize sounds, of course presets are not like samples, but using them directly without tweaking them, you might loose the certain sound you wanted. On the other hand, if you are not so much about sound synthesis but want to give your nice melody the right color, it is good that there are presets around.

I understand your concern, I also got Komplete (5+6) and some of the synths are just forcing you to use the presets, as I found it somehow hard to get the feeling for programming them. But I forced myself to load a clean new sound at startup and never look into the presets again, unless I just play around a little on my keyboard. Because I also feel the little "cheat" in there, using other peoples work (although intended to) AND because I want to understand my synths to become better at programming the desired sound. But other people are also right when they say, its ok to use them.
I wont for my part. Its your decision. Maybe you can make a certain preset of a certain synth famous (just remember the "hoover" sound or your examples). Just a matter of taste and what you think is fun/creative/art/inspiration for you (programming synths or playing them?).
My English is not perfect, I know... Sorry about that.

Greetings from Germany!

P.S. to wishlist forum users: Please search for former requests. Otherwise they will be splitted into many small ones and we are loosing impact!!!

3phase
Posts: 4648
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2003 3:29 am
Contact:

Re: Who uses presets?

Post by 3phase » Mon Nov 29, 2010 2:19 pm

davepermen wrote:then again, being called a lamer by 3phase is a compliment.

not that i use presets much myself. but i don't bash those that do.

you tolerate crashbugs too.. that is your overly generous personality but wont change any rules regarding music production out there.



as often with native social rules they are not easy to get for foreigners..

so people that are foreigners for electronic music production dont really see the specific rules in the beginning. They are not painted on the walls or printed in the manual.. its style specific aural traditions you only get when you are part of a musical scene.

Its funny that people so easy adapt to rules where to set breaks and how to make the xy style bla bla but are totaly ignorant for rules regarding coolness...
Just all justified by the goal to have a finsihed track with the most little personal effort.

Preset sounds.. preset arrangement ..preset style.. ?

when your music fits that description you know how to call it.
mac book 2,16 ghz 4(3)gb ram, Os 10.62, fireface 400,

Post Reply