VSTi Initialization CPU Hit on first note played

EnjoyRC · Post by **EnjoyRC** » Fri Mar 04, 2005 3:59 pm

Since beta testing, prior to Live 4 release, Live 4 has had a serious issue with VSTi initialization. I've pointed this out numerous times and never seem to get a response. Forum or Email. I've done extensive testing on this topic.

Scenerio #1:
1. Load a song with a VSTi instrument (something like Atmosphere)
2. Don't hit any MIDI keys yet
3. Start the song
4. Mid-song, start playing the VST instrument via external MIDI keyboard
5. Live pauses for a second for the VST to initialize... very bad!!!!

I think I might have figured out part of what's going on. VSTi's from the previous song might not have been released. Check this out...

Scenerio #2:
1. Load a song that contains SampleTank FREE (it only allows ONE instance of it to be loaded)
2. Don't hit any MIDI keys yet
3. Start the song
4. Mid-song, start playing the VST instrument via external MIDI keyboard
5. Live pauses for a second for the VST to initialize... very bad!!!!
6. Load a different song that also contains SampleTank FREE
7. Attempt to play a sound on SampleTank FREE... NOTHING!!!
8. Attempt to open the edit window for SampleTank FREE
9. It claims that you cannot open more than one instance of it
10. Obviously, when loading a song, the VSTi from previous song are not unloaded.

I seriously hope this get's fixed in one of the upcoming fixes. Definitly affects LIVE performances. Which is what LIVE was built for.

EnjoyRC

madlab · Post by **madlab** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 10:25 am

Same with Stylus RMX. This looks a bit like the 'first play glitch' bug.

EnjoyRC · Post by **EnjoyRC** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 1:35 pm

I have noticed that this issue isn't limited to particular VSTs.

Frank Hoffmann · Post by **Frank Hoffmann** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 2:48 pm

We could reproduce the problem and we think it has something to do with the RAM useage of the plug-in. We will investigate that further.

Frank

madlab · Post by **madlab** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 8:53 am

Frank Hoffmann wrote:We could reproduce the problem and we think it has something to do with the RAM useage of the plug-in. We will investigate that further.

Frank

Hi Frank, any news about the 'glitch on first play issue' ?

EnjoyRC · Post by **EnjoyRC** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 1:19 pm

Frank Hoffmann wrote:We could reproduce the problem and we think it has something to do with the RAM useage of the plug-in. We will investigate that further.

Frank

Hey Frank,

RAM useage of any VSTi used in LIVE? Or particular VSTi plugins?

Mark

Frank Hoffmann · Post by **Frank Hoffmann** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 1:51 pm

EnroyMC, we are still investigating and I don't want to speculate. This can be a really complicated thing and I have troubles to reproduce the situation. If anybody can find a sure scenario how to reproduce it, it would help.

Frank

EnjoyRC · Post by **EnjoyRC** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 2:29 pm

What about the 2 scenerios at the beginning of this thread? These are VERY reproducable. It happens to me EVERY night on stage. I have had to hit keys on my keyboard prior to every song to initialize the VSTis that might be loaded.

Keep in mind when following those scenerios, it usually happens when you use a VSTi for the first time. If you load one song with Atmosphere, then a few songs later, load another song with Atmosphere, it might not have the glitch. Mostly on it's first load and usage.

Frank Hoffmann · Post by **Frank Hoffmann** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 4:03 pm

It is really difficult to reproduce. The Atmosphere scenario doesn't have any glitches to me.

But I absolutely believe you. I've experienced the problem myself, but could not prodcude a scenario where it always works. Acutally it seems random and rare to me. But this can be related to many factors...

Best,
Frank

anti-banausic · Post by **anti-banausic** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 8:48 pm

I can confirm the second bug relating to the unloading of vsti's when changing sets.

In my case, Sonik Synth 2 Free version which only allows for one instance as well..

If you open a set with SS2 in it, then open a second set with SS2 in it, the result is a non-functioning SS2 because it thinks you are trying to load two instances (which logically means it thinks it is opening while the other instance in the first set hasn't been closed yet.)

Not a major bummer for me, partially because I haven't been using SS2 that much, but just my two cents.

madlab · Post by **madlab** » Fri Mar 11, 2005 8:15 am

Scenario 1 bug with Kontakt in a set containing 5 audio tracks, no FX plug in and two instruments in Kontakt (one drum set and one fretless bass - 200 Mo for both at max). In another set, a bit more complex, just activating an already existing Stylus RMX while playing completly froze my laptop, I couldn't even force quit.

EnjoyRC · Post by **EnjoyRC** » Thu May 26, 2005 12:28 pm

Still, the latest version hesitates on the first note played in a VSTi. Ableton dev team has confirmed this already. Each beta update I read, never addresses this issue.

Is a fix being worked on?

Side note: Will we ever see MIDI timing code out to more than one port?

Frank Hoffmann · Post by **Frank Hoffmann** » Thu May 26, 2005 1:06 pm

EnjoyRC wrote:Still, the latest version hesitates on the first note played in a VSTi. Ableton dev team has confirmed this already. Each beta update I read, never addresses this issue.

Is a fix being worked on?

Side note: Will we ever see MIDI timing code out to more than one port?

We are investiagating this issue, but we found that this problem is related to operating system and memory management issues in the plug-ins. You will find this problems in every host available.

Don't get me wrong. We know this is a big issue and will spend time to find solutions. But we only have this 100% under our control for our own built-in devices.

Frank