Recording Drums???

[MizTheWizKid]

Hello everyone... I hope you are all doing well so far for 2011???

Anyway, this weekend I finally broke down some barriers from making hip-hop music and finally met up with a band and tracked them. This was definitely a challenge for me going from using drum machines synced to Ableton Live and working with everything perfectly in sync with my time-line and rulers.

So, this session was basically to see if I could mic drums and get a decent enough sound. Surprisingly, I did a decent job for my first time. I loaned a few mics from a friend of mine and mic'ed the kick, snare, hi-hat, overheads and the room. I did have some bleeding issues but for my first time I can let things slide and just get better with time...

The question I have for the gurus who work with live drums and bands:

What is the best approach for recording drums and getting things lined up to the time-line in Ableton Live so that if parts need to be copied and pasted you dont have to guess where things go? Would you have the drummer play to a metronome? Or play live and then tempo map the track to his drums?

This has always been something I have wondered how they do on hit records with drummers? Can anyone help give me some guidelines to this for my next session which is going to be in about 2 weeks.

My goal is to be able to record the drums and have things line up so I can copy and paste parts if need be...

Note: Also, taking into account that sometimes songs change tempo at certain points (speed up or slow down) and then go back to the original tempo... How would how take this in to account as well?

[bosonHavoc]

i think metronome would be the way to go
i like to keep the level of the metronome kind of low in
my headphones so as to not get annoyed and play to rigid.

edit..
for the tempo variation of the song you
you can automate the tempo changes so the click will change tempo when needed...
allot would depend how in the pocket the drummer is..
and the situation.. what may work one time wont work the next..
if you have a great drummer things are allot easier too

[smaucher]

I can tell you how we were doing it lately:

- set the correct tempo before start by trying with the whole band; even 2 or 3 beats can make a huge difference.
- create a midi track /w cowbell or similar 1/4 or 1/8, depending on what you prefer.
- song is recorded to two 'dirt' tracks by guitar and bass.
- drums miked and leveled; make sure not to record too quiet; use apropriate microphones!
- give the drummer the pilot/'dirt' track and click to play to.
- repeat every recording or just punch in/out for corrections - there's NO 'fix it in the mix'! don't rely on warping! everyting that's not correct cannot be corrected afterwards to be sounding natural.

this worked pretty good for us!

Tempo change is a pain in Live, unfortunately. you have to do this using an automation in the master track. make sure to set the correct minimum and maximum bpm, because you're likely to end up /w really odd measures like 114,67 as the resolution of the automation drawing is very special in Live.

[jonathan harker]

hi there! this could be useful to know!:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WRUIzfDxPw
cheers, alex

[MizTheWizKid]

Thanks to everyone that replied.... I especially enjoyed the Ableton Live multi-channel drum warp... Cool... So I take it the best way to approach something like this is to have the drummer play along with pre-programmed tracks or a metronome?

[bosonHavoc]

hi there! this could be useful to know!:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WRUIzfDxPw
cheers, alex

freaking genius.. i always wonder what version of live features like this pop up in lol.. guess i really need to start reading the version notes

[kanuck]

have you already recorded them or are you asking now and planning to do it soon? I've always been worried about phasing when recording drums ever since i learned what it was.

[jonathan harker]

if you want to copy and paste parts a metronome and/ or pilot track is what you need! and of course a really tight drummer could help as well! something you should know about warping drums is: it depends of the style of music and what is your goal with it. if you want to keep the natural groove and liveliness of the band then don´t warp every hit just warp the first hit of a measure and the parts/ hits that don´t groove. if you want it the modern pop way warp every kick and snare and tom hit. if needed then do the hihat and cymbals also.
but remember: this is just cosmetics! the better the drummer, the better the editing afterwards is.
have fun! alex

[smaucher]

phasing is overrated imo. if you record your snare from top and bottom switch phase of the bottom mic, but anything else is not too critical.
in case you'd record the kick from the inside and put room mics behind the set then I would consider to have a close lokk at the phase meter.

[MizTheWizKid]

@kanuck - Yes I recorded them this weekend for the first time... The session went well because I just let the drummer track his drums first and then we laid the bass and guitar later... Turned out good for a first ever band recording though

I have a lot to learn and experiment with but I just want to tighten up my knowledge and skills on how to approach recording a live band so the editing phase is a bit easier on me... I guess there is no easy way, just have to have patience and a good drummer... or like suggested... build backing tracks for the drummer to temporarily play to then delete them in the end.... So many way to approach this i guess its experience that will tell?

Thanks again to everyone that replied... Time to get practicing!