Kontakt 4 vs Sampler.

Discuss music production with Ableton Live.
Machinesworking
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Re: Kontakt 4 vs Sampler.

Post by Machinesworking » Thu Jan 20, 2011 10:30 am

Kontkt beats the crap out of Sampler, but have you run into areas with Sampler where you're frustrated yet? if not, then don't get Kontakt. I never do "repeats" on plug ins unless I've reached some limit that pisses me off with the plug in.
I'm really digging Kontakt these days, but here's a practical and righteous reason to stick to Sampler, live can be told to save all samples from a Sampler patch used in your song in the same folder. With Kontakt you have to manually tell Kontakt to save the patch to the Live set, it's not automatic. Slightly easier for archiving and less of a hassle. FYI all the 30+ GB of samples that come with Kontakt are not demos. 8) Either way my advice is to make sure you're not just collecting instruments, that you'll use it if you buy it.

seattletruth
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Re: Kontakt 4 vs Sampler.

Post by seattletruth » Thu Jan 20, 2011 10:36 am

Depends what you want to use it for. For making your OWN samples and beats up and stuff, definitely stick to sampler / simpler / drum racks. They are very powerful and fully integrated into Live.

However, if you don't give some of the Kontakt libraries a fair shot, you are missing out. Alicia's Keys is a little over a hundred bucks (and takes up 7gb) but it is simply stunning. You will swear that you are actually playing the piano. It sounds so real and perfect it's uncanny. Also the east-west / colossus sample collection is great, and Chris Hein horns is pretty cool. Theres lots of other sampled instruments available for kontakt; everything from sampled Nord leads to whistling and random sounds. However when using these sample libraries, there isn't really much to "learn" about kontakt. You pretty much set them up like an instrument rack (with each instrument having different midi inputs). Some instruments use keyswitches to control intonation, which is just a key you press with your left hand.

Kontakt is one of the major tools that professional quality sampling instruments are built for. If you don't plan to use professional sample libraries you are better off just sticking to sampler/simpler. And in my opinion your better off using sampler for building your own stuff anyway, as long as you are not planning to market it to the public lol.

Thats my opinion anyway.

dinaiz
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Re: Kontakt 4 vs Sampler.

Post by dinaiz » Thu Jan 20, 2011 10:47 am

The "free" kontakt on NI's website is kontakt player. Therefore you can't do much with it except playback. The real kontakt let's you modify sounds, script and do a lot of stuff. I think it's regarded as the #1 vst sampler by lots of people, because you can hear so many people praising it, and so many companies release sample packs in the Kontakt format. I heard that many professionals use it, and I know one, myself, who uses it extensively.

For the kontakt library, you won't beat it ! Seriously the quantity and quality of sounds is just unbelievable.

IMHO, Kontakt player is not much use, unless you plan to buy one of the sound packs designed for kontakt : http://www.native-instruments.com/#/en/ ... allkontakt. It doesn't comes with the 40 something GB library of Kontakt, and the free sounds are very frustrating : they're design to make you buy the full version of course. Business is business :)

I also have sampler but I never use it. I honestly -not to be rude to any one- that, regarding sounds, Native instruments is miles ahead of ableton and it's partners. Also, to me, the fact it is tightly integrated into Live is a problem. I want to ave the freedom to change DAWs anytime I want.

On the other hand Kontakt is complicated to use to it's full potential (if you want to use it like a sampler and not just an expander), and most importantly, it's expensive. Also I don't know about your particular genre. I never did - and will probably never do - house music, and I don't know which kind of sounds you're after. I feel like one of the strength of Kontakt library is it's versatility : you have orchestral sounds, regular band sounds, and also a few "electro" sounds but I don't think that's it's main selling point.

Have you looked at other NI instruments, like FM8 or Massive ? They're way more "electro" oriented than Kontakt but not for sample manipulation of course.

Also another option worth having a look too is Camel audio alchemy. Because it does granular resynthesis, it's like a mix of sampling and synthesis . Best of both worlds :)

So to sum up, Kontakt vs Sampler : I think kontakt is much better than Sampler, both in sound quantity, quality and features BUT it's more complicated to use and way more expensive.

However I can guarantee you that if you can buy Kontakt, and commit yourself to spend a little bit of time on it, there's no going back.


P.S. :
]Theres lots of other sampled instruments available for kontakt; everything from sampled Nord leads
Where do you find those nord leads ? Are they in the Kontakt library, or are they from 3rd parties ?

necho
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Re: Kontakt 4 vs Sampler.

Post by necho » Thu Jan 20, 2011 10:47 am

Kontakt is a proper sampler.

Pretty much the most creative electronic music environment there is. To use it just for commercial libraries is a waste - you might as well just use Kontakt Player.

Take the time to learn it.
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glitchrock-buddha
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Re: Kontakt 4 vs Sampler.

Post by glitchrock-buddha » Thu Jan 20, 2011 5:32 pm

Two reasons I like Kontakt over sampler. One is that there is time stretching (ie. time independent pitching of samples) which lets you create patches from samples that don't change sample length as you change pitch. The other is that it's pretty much the standard format for third party libraries. If you're into playing keyboard and like sampled instruments, it's the one to have. Being a Komplete/Kore owner, it's also (somewhat) integrated with Kore.

There is one reason I like sampler over Kontakt - the nice straight forward, simple interface. I'd use it a lot more if it could pitch samples without changing the sample duration.
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Khazul
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Re: Kontakt 4 vs Sampler.

Post by Khazul » Thu Jan 20, 2011 7:57 pm

If you are thinking of getting Kontakt, might want to get the whole Komplete 7 package instead, though TBH Kontact instruments (core library and the extras like Alecia's keys, Pianos collection, Scarbie EPs etc) where the reason I get Komplete. As it happens, the core library has a good collection of sounds in it, that TBH make Ableton EIC2 instantly useless.

I havnt really poked around much in Kontakt itself, beyond being aware that it has a pretty powerful scripting engine that can for example turn normal playing in guitar chords etc and I guess that is where its gets it power from. Memory management seems pretty good on it as well.

Only got the Komplete 7 and Kore 2 bundle a couple of weeks ago and so far its covering all those non-synth sounds Ive been looking for that EIC2 never quite yielded. Alecia's key has to be the most real sounding sample based piano Ive played especially if you enable silent notes on it and so get the full resonance model (Its not part of komplete, but a very good illustration of what Kontakt can support in terms of huge multi-sample instrument that dont need loads of memory to use).

George duke soul treasures runs out of kontakt as well, so obviously it support timeslicing and pitch shift/time stretch etc - just aint found that on the brief fiddling Ive done so far.
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foxymethoxy
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Re: Kontakt 4 vs Sampler.

Post by foxymethoxy » Thu Jan 20, 2011 8:00 pm

Honestly I think they are a bit apples and oranges. Kontakt is incredible for reasons already mentioned, but it certainly takes its toll on CPU usage. Sampler, while simple, is great for basic everyday sampling. With my live set I have several hundred Samplers in racks to do drums and it uses about the same CPU as having 4 Kontakts open to moderately complex patches open. Kontakt for song and loop production, Sampler for live use and simple sampling.

beats me
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Re: Kontakt 4 vs Sampler.

Post by beats me » Thu Jan 20, 2011 8:34 pm

Kontakt and it's available libraries are epic. And you can use it if you EVER want to use a DAW other than Live which usually happens at some point for a lot of us.

Khazul
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Re: Kontakt 4 vs Sampler.

Post by Khazul » Thu Jan 20, 2011 8:40 pm

beats me wrote:Kontakt and it's available libraries are epic. And you can use it if you EVER want to use a DAW other than Live which usually happens at some point for a lot of us.
And theres a 64 bit version should you feel the need to start using a 64 bit DAW (even if there ist a 64 version of Kore 2 which many folks use to host Kontakt).
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ze2be
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Re: Kontakt 4 vs Sampler.

Post by ze2be » Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:32 pm

Personaly I prefer Simpler over Sampler. Everything there works as expected. And its all on one screen, which is a pay of when you cant have floating windows!

I think I have an old licens for Kontakt. But I never used it really. Dint like the gui and layout at all.

Machinesworking
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Re: Kontakt 4 vs Sampler.

Post by Machinesworking » Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:46 pm

Khazul wrote:
beats me wrote:Kontakt and it's available libraries are epic. And you can use it if you EVER want to use a DAW other than Live which usually happens at some point for a lot of us.
And theres a 64 bit version should you feel the need to start using a 64 bit DAW (even if there ist a 64 version of Kore 2 which many folks use to host Kontakt).
You can run Kontakt stand alone in the 64 bit version, and render in Live later. Kontakt can have multiple MIDI in to at least 16 separate tracks and instruments in stand alone. On OSX you simply use IAC to get MIDI from tracks to and from Kontakt.
This should allow a user to double the amount of RAM they can use.

Also, even in Live, a single instance of Kontakt with 16 intruments piped to 16 audio tracks will more than likely be less of a CPU hit than 16 separate Samplers.
Sampler is convenient and cheaper, beyond that Kontakt is a different beast entirely.

ze2be
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Re: Kontakt 4 vs Sampler.

Post by ze2be » Thu Jan 20, 2011 11:31 pm

Have you considered Direct Wave:


-Freely assignable 16 stereo outputs
-Multi-editor with channel list, mixer, expression, modulation and pitchbend GUI controls
-Built-in sample editor with destructive editing (cut / copy / paste / trim functions), loop finding tool, normalize, vertical / horizontal zooming, etc)
-Realtime sampling / recording of whatever is connected to DirectWave inputs (needs modular host or host with assignable plug-in routing)
-Record Threshold: sampling input will wait until signal peak arises (-40dB)
-Built-in VSTi host to easily automate "sampling" of your vst instruments directly into DirectWave
-Total Recall operation mode: DirectWave will enclose all the required sample data in the project files created by your host: it creates totally portable projects without worrying about needed sample files
-Import: DWP (proprietary), WAV (any), SF2 (Soundfont), AKP (Akai), Propellerheads Recycle, Native Instruments Battery, Kontakt *(nki), GIGA *(gig) & eMagic EXS24
-Several importing methods: built-in browsing, drag&drop, menu options
-Built-in fast library browser list and tree-arranged menu program selector.
-Zone editor with visual zone arrangement map and list with all zone properties
-All program/zone parameters of all channels can be automated as VST parameters

$99

http://flstudio.image-line.com/document ... twave.html

Khazul
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Re: Kontakt 4 vs Sampler.

Post by Khazul » Thu Jan 20, 2011 11:43 pm

Beware of the imports Native Instruments .nki files. Im sure it can import the basics, but i cant imagine that it could interprett the scripts and advanced stuff.

Bit like 'sampler can import exs24 files'... Yes - kind of/sometimes...
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ze2be
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Re: Kontakt 4 vs Sampler.

Post by ze2be » Fri Jan 21, 2011 12:39 am

Khazul wrote:Beware of the imports Native Instruments .nki files. Im sure it can import the basics, but i cant imagine that it could interprett the scripts and advanced stuff.

Bit like 'sampler can import exs24 files'... Yes - kind of/sometimes...
Well, yeah. I rather thought of it as a good step up from Sampler, then a rival to Kontakt.

seattletruth
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Re: Kontakt 4 vs Sampler.

Post by seattletruth » Fri Jan 21, 2011 12:54 am


Seattletruth

"as long as you are not planning to market it to the public"

you mean you wouldnt use Sampler on a track for release? Why? Or you mean to build pro multisample libraries?
I meant to sell your sample libraries to the public like Chris Hein.

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