Negotiating and approach DJ fees? please suggest/Help!!!??:)

[sdmiddleton]

Hi Guys,

Just finished my first DJ mix and was hoping to try and pimp my MP3 skipping services for £££... In fact i'll post the mix here later, in case anyone cares to listen..

I have played a couple of sets in public and got paid for it before, but mainly by luck. the first was as a guest at a DJ friend of mine's night and i got some ££ from his take, and the second at the end of an orginal Ableton Live set which turned into impromptu DJ set...

I want to approach Events managers at various venues now and was hoping to learn from anyones experience here. Any gig would be great, paid or not, but i don't want to sound like an amateur when the issue of Cash arises. So.

Should I ask what their rate would be? Or do I propose a rate and see how it goes down.. I don't want to under quote myself and get laughed at, and don't want to over value myself...and get laugh at...What are people general approach when negotiationg rates and getting gigs?

Thanks in advance... (mix to come shortly)...

[Angstrom]

you have to look at this sort of thing from a promoter's side. they also must gauge what is too much and what is too little to pay. For some people £50 is too much to pay 'em, for some people £5000 is too little.

Promoters consider things like: how many people will this act bring in (IE: how much cash will they bring)? Are they competent enough to fit well with the other acts on the bill (will it be embarrassing)?

And, the only way a promoter can know that information well enough to gauge what a sensible rate of pay for you is from direct or indirect recommendation.

Direct recommendation: they, or their trusted bud, saw you play and you rocked it.
Indirect recommendation: you did a night or two comparable to theirs, and you rocked it.

Based on that information they will decide what is too little and what is too much to pay you.
I do a little bit of promoting, not DJ's, but it's comparable ...and I would not pay a newb anything over £40. Yes, I'm a bastard, but there are a billion newbs out there who all think they rock, but they don't.
If they rock it, then you up their money.

So from your perspective I'd say : expect a pittance and greatfully accept anything more, until the point where you have 7-10 solid gigs under your belt, where you rocked. At that point you can start to dictate terms based on solid experience. Until then you are in your apprenticeship, and you don't really get much as an apprentice.

Sorry if that seems harsh, but that's showbiz!

[beats me]

Promoters consider things like: how many people will this act bring in

Really I'd say that's all they care about, and I can't say I blame them when money is on the table.

[Angstrom]

yeah, that's the primary thing, but - if it's obvious that the act is a newb and so will only bring in their mates plus some others; then you think :"will they look inept alongside HUGE ACT X, who is also on the bill"

Because most people will give a talented newb a chance (early in the night) simply because it's easy on the budget, that's as long they are convinced that the newb will not fuck it up and embarrass everybody.
So if you are obviously new then your only remaining goal is to appear talented and reliable.

Or give them drugs.
That also works.

[beats me]

yeah, that's the primary thing, but - if it's obvious that the act is a newb and so will only bring in their mates plus some others; then you think :"will they look inept alongside HUGE ACT X, who is also on the bill"

Because most people will give a talented newb a chance (early in the night) simply because it's easy on the budget, that's as long they are convinced that the newb will not fuck it up and embarrass everybody.
So if you are obviously new then your only remaining goal is to appear talented and reliable.

Or give them drugs.
That also works.

My DJ friend was talking this weekend about the old Cool World raves where they'd book like 100+ mostly nobody DJs and pay them nothing or near to nothing but they were smoke and mirrored by the promoters by the fact they got to play a huge venue with a guaranteed crowd and got their named wedged in with the 100 other DJs on the flyer. Pretty slick on the promoter's part.


I love DJing but am far too old for myself or the promoters to expect me to pull any bodies into the venue.

[sdmiddleton]

you have to look at this sort of thing from a promoter's side. they also must gauge what is too much and what is too little to pay. For some people £50 is too much to pay 'em, for some people £5000 is too little.

Promoters consider things like: how many people will this act bring in (IE: how much cash will they bring)? Are they competent enough to fit well with the other acts on the bill (will it be embarrassing)?

And, the only way a promoter can know that information well enough to gauge what a sensible rate of pay for you is from direct or indirect recommendation.

Direct recommendation: they, or their trusted bud, saw you play and you rocked it.
Indirect recommendation: you did a night or two comparable to theirs, and you rocked it.

Based on that information they will decide what is too little and what is too much to pay you.
I do a little bit of promoting, not DJ's, but it's comparable ...and I would not pay a newb anything over £40. Yes, I'm a bastard, but there are a billion newbs out there who all think they rock, but they don't.
If they rock it, then you up their money.

So from your perspective I'd say : expect a pittance and greatfully accept anything more, until the point where you have 7-10 solid gigs under your belt, where you rocked. At that point you can start to dictate terms based on solid experience. Until then you are in your apprenticeship, and you don't really get much as an apprentice.

Sorry if that seems harsh, but that's showbiz!

Cheers for the response, that actually makes alot of sense - and i think you're right, I would need a solid 5-10 shows that rocked before I could up the stakes and be confident it won't flop...I guess its not just about mixing but rolling with punches when technical glitches occur (my fault or not) and not looking like a douch fumbling about worried that i've destroyed their soundsystem and generally feeling/looking all 'amateur'...i had a similar event engineering for the first time for a massive function with 10 piece bands - i was hired for my supposed 'expertise' and had only ever done 2 acoustic nights before and they also had a sound engineering student ask to tag along and watch how I worked so he could learn from me! haha, that was funny, he was talking vintage amps and mic;s and clearly knew more 'gear' than me but was somehow in awe of every fader move and EQ i was making - that was a real test!!! The art was to not look like anything was unexpected and certainly nothing to do with me..In fact there were some dodgy electrics in the building and the bands On stage monitoring was surging and were blaming me that I couldn't push them up high enough on stage cos of feedback - when all the lights started to dim and flicker by the end of the night they were all apologising to me - I slept well that day!!!