Live 5: MP3 - NO NO!

Discuss music production with Ableton Live.
telekom
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Post by telekom » Thu Jun 02, 2005 4:26 pm

I agree with the inclusion of MP3 wholeheartedly. What is there to lose? No doubt some forum users will have a whole new pile of stuff to argue about and feel superior about. Wav/Aiff vs MP3 may just knock the Mac vs PC argument off the top of these pages...

In the end it's about the music. If it sounds good who gives a monkeys about it's origin? Do we go to rock gigs and say "What a passionate performance. However I wish the guitarist had been using an original '56 Strat rather than that cheap copy - would've sounded better..." If you're dancing, or laughing, or crying, or just feeling so alive you could burst, does it actually matter whether you're listening to an MP3 or a wax cylinder? If the performance or the music itself gets to you, that's all you need to feel or know. The fact that some are complaining here about MP3 inclusion shows that for many people the music comes in second place to the technology.

And someone else observed that now Live supports MP3 "that everyone will be turning to DJ'ing." So what - are you afraid of some young kid coming along and getting the crowd moving more than you did? NEWSFLASH - if it hasn't already happened, it's just about to, whether Live supports MP3 or not. The reason you're worried is that you're not concentrating on what you're doing but what is happening over your shoulder.

"I can hear the footsteps of younger, better looking people, every night on the decks..." (or something close to that) LCD Soundsystem got it right here - every generation will be superseded by the next - and thank god for that. Otherwise we would still be listening to Genesis and Phil Collins would be your hero.

I'm delighted with all the new features promised in V5 - If you're trying to blame Ableton for making an accessible, exciting music production tool that many people can use then you don't love music as much as you thought.

Now go and make some fucking music and stop moaning.

And that means me too.

Bye! :)
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tekkers
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Post by tekkers » Thu Jun 02, 2005 4:35 pm

hahahah yah LCD soundsystem - loosing my edge - great tune and quite correct too..

i quite look forward to being able to play mp3s in a more 'dj' style when i'm drunk and have friends around lol - it'll be far better than using winamp and imagine the fun u could have messin around with effects and stuff..

and just imagine what terror u could cause if ya did a wedding or some other such kinda party - with all ya cheeze party choons - the temptation to drop in a breakbeat - a 303 acid plug in - granular filters etc all along side the birdy song and all the rest would be immense!

i just hope the crossfader has different curves and stuff cause it thought it sucked as it was

8O

Skylit
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Post by Skylit » Thu Jun 02, 2005 4:51 pm

Ok, I must respond to this as I see my original comment has been quite misunderstood...

1. We already have lots of overcrowded DAWs on this planet. Live's main attractiveness is its simplicity and how 'light' it feels compared to Cubase for example. Some people understand advancement in technology as adding AS MUCH features as possible (look at Steinberg - they copied every other sequencer and now it basically has most functions of all other sequencers combined all in one, but does it make it attractive?). Look at what's happening with companies who are producing iPod-killer mp3 players?! They add more buttons, a larger display, more functions, more formats support... And?
Well, ok if it makes a majority of users happy, I'll get used to it.

2. My main concern, however, was whether mp3 support would affect performance in any way? If it does real-time decompression it will certainly use more CPU. If it converts it to wav during import, then probably you won't feel it at all though. It's fine if the function 'sleeps' in the background, but if new functions introduce new problems and threats to existing functionality... That's what I was talking about.

3. I am sorry for using the word 'pro'. I agree it relates to the type of guys you described. (I don't consider myself a 'pro') Still I think as mp3 is lossy format, we can easily live without it.

Let's finish with this topic. I didn't mean to sound arrogant or anything...

tekkers
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Post by tekkers » Thu Jun 02, 2005 5:01 pm

hopefully it'll sleep untill needed - i can imagine with all this new functionality there will quite a few crashes and stuff - thats what the beta period is for i guess...

for the most stable performance i would reccomend using wavs alone with live's internal effects..

and i really was against mp3 support for similar reasons but now for me the ideas and sonic madness that could result in is an exciting prospect!

pity the next poor ppl who book me to dj their wedding! HAHAHAHAAA

8O

Sales Dude McBoob
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Post by Sales Dude McBoob » Thu Jun 02, 2005 5:04 pm

When I'd demo Live 4 for people there would be a number of occasions where the potential buyer would ask about MP3 support and it would be a deal killer for them. So I'm glad it's there. I don't think I'll use it though because I think MP3s sound like shite. Cymbals always sound like jittery garbage with MP3s.

Lately when I demo Live the deal killer is that Live doesn't come with enough loops and samples. I'll hear "Wull, Garageband and Soundtrack and Acid and Reason all come loaded with sounds, it's wack that Live doesn't blah blah blah..."

Oh well. The smart customers can see all that Live has to offer and they 'get it'.

anonymouse
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Post by anonymouse » Thu Jun 02, 2005 5:11 pm

Skylit wrote:look at Steinberg - they copied every other sequencer and now it basically has most functions of all other sequencers combined all in one, but does it make it attractive?
sorry to jump on another of your points, but I was using Cubase on an Atari ST way back when I was wearing short trousers that covered my shoes. They dwindled a bit for a few years as the market for sequencers was perfectly happy with the model Steinberg originated and innovation waned for a while until Acid arrived. SX is a fantastic DAW now. Any they are as innovative as any of their very few real competitors.

Live Rewired into SX, with hardware mixed with softsynths is probably the ultimate playground for those who like to fuse Live's liveness with Cubase's conventionality, depth and power. (I'm sure the same could be said for Logic/Sonar which I've never used)

All in all, within a month, I can't wait to lock it all together. I still might spend 60% of the time really creating stuff in Live as its first incarnation.

Ableton have really smartly enhanced Live 5. I'm so glad that it is not the case that there are big overlaps with traditional DAWs. It'll keep people satisfied that the Live upgrade is not duplicating functionality they already have in other packages.

There is something very satisfying reading the Live 5 blurb and not to be thinking "doh! this makes the XYZ other software I bought redundant now". Ableton have somehow really kept their finger on the pulse of what fits well in the average audio nut's existing diverse kit,

What great product planning.

mcconaghy
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Post by mcconaghy » Thu Jun 02, 2005 5:33 pm

anonymouse wrote:Live Rewired into SX, with hardware mixed with softsynths is probably the ultimate playground for those who like to fuse Live's liveness with Cubase's conventionality, depth and power. (I'm sure the same could be said for Logic/Sonar which I've never used)
I've been rewiring Live into Logic to add parts I do with Sculpture and the EVP88, and of course to make use of Space Designer.
All in all, within a month, I can't wait to lock it all together. I still might spend 60% of the time really creating stuff in Live as its first incarnation.
I hear you on that, the reasons for me to use Logic are shrinking rapidly, I think by the time Live 6 comes along I'll be removing a white dongle from a USB port and filing it under "don't need anymore"

anonymouse
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Post by anonymouse » Thu Jun 02, 2005 5:47 pm

I guess I just want to see the session view getting better and better. I'll always prefer to use SX for the arrangement view type stuff.

Just a personal preference, but if Steinberg and other hardcore traditional DAW developers keep making big strides in the arrangement world and Ableton specialise in the session world - it means Live 6, 7, 8, 9 etc will be so unique and clever and compelling, I'm going to be with them all the way :D

I don't want to see Abe's dev & design team playing catch up on what is already available elsewhere (in big fat heavy DAWs). Instead devote 90% of their passion to a lightning-fast smart session view, with ever-more detailed, clever and easy to use & intuitive real-time performance.

Anyway, this is an old discussion!

(white dongle? you agent provocateur you :p)
Last edited by anonymouse on Thu Jun 02, 2005 5:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

tekkers
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Post by tekkers » Thu Jun 02, 2005 5:48 pm

i've never really liked cubase - i went from octamed on the amiga ( a tracker style program ) to using a yamaha rm1x to sequence on.. and then to acid on when i next got a pc..... workin with audio on acid took me away from midi and by acid v2 i'd stopped using the rm1x - only for live use..

then live came along..

the thing is with live is it is simple to use from the start and looks and feels like the real thing for me - and also it kinda feels futuristic but not in a cheezy way ... remember when for live 4 there were the pics of a hand touching the clips on screen? i could imagine live workin with a device like that - maybe somethin like jazzmutants lemur in the future is the way live is going..

and with the mp3 support and stuff i could imagine it in a club - triggerin loops - full song mp3s modulated by envelopes etc - droppin in mc's and makin em sound good (if its posibble) - addin softsynths and midi clips ..... wooo far beyond anythin traktor or its like could do i think?

and i doubt ya could do the same in cubase or logic etc - without alot of setting up ...

i just dont find cubase,logic,sonar (i dont know anythin about max/msp so i cant really comment) and all really relevant to me anymore - powerfull and welldeveloped programs they are for sure but i dont think they are pushing the art of sequencing forward..

where for me - live is for sure

i hope they bring the 'sequencing instrument' line back for the new box!

8O

telekom
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Post by telekom » Thu Jun 02, 2005 5:56 pm

tekkers wrote:remember when for live 4 there were the pics of a hand touching the clips on screen? i could imagine live workin with a device like that - maybe somethin like jazzmutants lemur in the future is the way live is going..

i hope they bring the 'sequencing instrument' line back for the new box!

8O
Hey tekkers,
i just had a nice thought about a touch sensitive screen over Live... triggering clips and adjusting controls right on the screen... nice idea (and probably very old too...)

Yeh "Sequencing Instrument" is a perfect description. What's a jazzmutants lemur btw?
:)
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anonymouse
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Post by anonymouse » Thu Jun 02, 2005 5:59 pm

tekkers - I get where you are coming from.

I've never gotten into the tracker/hardware sequencer buttons model though; might be linked a bit with the style of music, or what methods people get used to and comfortable with. Let alone, people probably *think* about composition in different ways too.

tekkers
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Post by tekkers » Thu Jun 02, 2005 6:09 pm

check out a video of the lemur here http://www.sonicstate.com/news/shownews.cfm?newsid=2138 its very expensive tho - but i think its a preview of how things could go in the future..

yes mouse i agree - alot of ma music is loop based so trackers/and hardware sequencers have alllways been more comfortable for me...

but saying that i do most of my work in the arrange page after building a basic structure in the session ... and ableton's arrange page is the best i have ever used.... i have gripes with things like how the song position pointer behaviour was just changed totally... and it would be great to be able to open out 2 or more controller channels... and sub grouping of tracks would be nice - for a drum sub mix or somethin so ya get more screen space..

i can imagine thats where cubase and the rest are way superiour over live.... but seeing as the most advanced midi i am used too is a hardware sequencer i'm in heaven lol


telekom
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Post by telekom » Thu Jun 02, 2005 6:18 pm

http://www.jazzmutant.com/lemur_overview.php

WOW that is VERY cool ! But I'd have to sell my car to get one of these...
MacBook Pro Retina, Live 9.5, Reason, UC33, KRK RP5s, Teenage Engineering OP1, Korg ESX2, Korg Prophecy, Clavia Nord Lead, Bass, Guitars.
http://soundcloud.com/motorradkinophone

tekkers
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Post by tekkers » Thu Jun 02, 2005 6:20 pm

what i really think is - with all this new stuff, how ya could be djing somewhere with live playing rather normal mp3s and then for some reason go totally off the rails and create a mosterous and terrifing beast to frighten grannies and ya pet goldfish..and record it too!!!!

all one program on two screens - that i find is totally rather cool

8O 8O

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