Live 5 Announcement

telekom · Post by **telekom** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 4:28 pm

anonymouse wrote:I bought a newspaper yesterday, and today, I'm walking past the newsstand and I see the've just gone and upgraded it to a totally new one! I went apeshit with the guy who sold me the one yesterday. He must have known they were just about to release the upgrade.

The salesperson tried to explain that yesterday's newspaper was perfectly good yesterday, and I looked happy as I read it while I walked away.

But I told him it was a fucking rip off. After an hour screaming at him, he finally exchanged the old one for the new one. He kinda had a funny look on his face, like he thought I was a complete dick. But I got what I wanted in the end, by going completely ballistic.

I'm sure it will never happen again.

I too have just landed from Mars like stephenInoe.

Har Har Anonymouse, I like it...

On the same point but more seriously... I wonder if some people on these forums pages think of the Abletons as super-rich ivory-tower dwellers... These people are running a company in an obscure arm of one of the riskiest businesses there is - computer software, dept of music. So personally, even aside of arguments about piracy, I think Ableton is quite entitled to charge us for what is virtually (V5) a new product. The abletons are young, talented, inventive people. And they have done something extraordinary in producing this software, they deserve to be paid for their incredible work, maybe even make a profit too ! But more importantly the company needs to be able to keep growing so that we all get another brilliant upgrade later. Ormaybe a brand new product. If you can't afford the upgrade you still have an absolute firecracker of a music tool in your hands...

I bought a G4 1.33 Powerbook in December, not long before they released the 1.67 version with more ram for the same price - what should I do, launch an attack on Apple because they sold me something I wanted and then got on with improving their products?

It is tough if you just miss the cheap upgrades. But that is life I'm afraid. Learn from it if possible and move on.

best wishes...

drez · Post by **drez** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 6:47 pm

Here's what ableton needs to do.

There is a simple formula to solve this. You take the maximum price of the rebate divided by the number of days before release of previous version and release of next version. Then you pay that cost depending on when you registered it and when you buy the next version.

If you think that the above paragraph is the way you think it should be done, then please do us a favor and walk into oncoming traffic.

You don't buy a 2004 car and then expect an upgrade to the next years model for nothing. You bought Live 4 at the price it was worth when you handed the cash over. Ableton shouldn't care WHEN that was, all they have to do is release the software. They released it last July or whatever it was and it will be around 1 year in between upgrades.

Who freakin cares when YOU bought it. You bought it and paid the price at the time and it was worth it to you at the time. Whether you "got everything out of it" in the few months you had Live4 doesn't matter...you are paying for what went IN to making the software and what it takes to support it. You don't like the release schedule? Then buy the new version right when it comes out so that they can put that money to good use for the next upgrade.

What a bunch of whiners. If you "miss the cycle" because you bought it in the middle or at the end of the upgrade cycle, then its your fault for not getting it when it just came out, and that has nothing to do with Ableton.

I could reverse the moronic logic and say "hey I paid full price for Live4 right when it came out, so Live5 should be even LESS of an upgrade to me because I gave you money a whole YEAR ago that you can earn interest on!".

Ableton's timeframe for a reduced upgrade cost is more than adequate. They have to draw a line. Sometimes you make it...sometimes you don't. Live with it.

Cheap people are cheap people and they will always whine about it.

Pity.

LOFA · Post by **LOFA** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 7:03 pm

Thank you Ableton. Thank you so much. "Heroes come in limited supplies these days"- Al Pacino- The Insider

I wish I had an ape-shit filter to run these words through. I imagine it would sound a lot like the new saturator followed by the new beat-mangler.
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

futureproof · Post by **futureproof** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 7:04 pm

I agree 150% drez.

The thing is, from the day we are born most of us are taught to "shop around" and look for the best deal, the "frugal" mindstate. This naturally creates competition and in the end does benefit consumers but it can go too far at times, IMHO.

Like you said, this is a VERY niche industry and anyone in it is doing it for the love of what they do...period. You would have to be clinically insane to get in this business purely as a business venture to make money. Look at how many people use cracks, for example.

Besides all that, my point is that I for one am happy to give my money to those companies like Ableton that DESERVE it, lest a "walmart" world is right around the corner.

kabuki · Post by **kabuki** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 7:13 pm

Maybe I missed it, but any word on Altivec? I haven't seen a Ab post or user post on this omission...

Either way, looks nice.

God, we're a bunch of lemmings

Kodama · Post by **Kodama** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 8:39 pm

Maybe they know Apple's going Intel (don't we wish!).

stephenlnoe · Post by **stephenlnoe** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 10:36 pm

What happened to me will happen to you (whoever) one day and you'll feel screwed too.

Take a look at it this way. There was no indication at all when I bought LIVE4 12 days ago that Live 5 was coming out. They make their announcement 2 days ago (that makes me own the program for 10 days). No indication at NAB either. They'd have been smart to wait at least well into the month of June to say that the free upgrade was retroactive starting on June 1. This is not the case at all.

I mean really, why would anyone knowingly purchase a program when they know the update will happen in 10 days (from purchase)? Do you see the deception?

Let's see how many analogies you spout when it's your money.

amazing....

futureproof · Post by **futureproof** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 10:47 pm

stephenlnoe wrote:What happened to me will happen to you (whoever) one day and you'll feel screwed too.

Take a look at it this way. There was no indication at all when I bought LIVE4 12 days ago that Live 5 was coming out. They make their announcement 2 days ago (that makes me own the program for 10 days). No indication at NAB either. They'd have been smart to wait at least well into the month of June to say that the free upgrade was retroactive starting on June 1. This is not the case at all.

I mean really, why would anyone knowingly purchase a program when they know the update will happen in 10 days (from purchase)? Do you see the deception?

Let's see how many analogies you spout when it's your money.

amazing....

your right stephen....it IS amazing. Please explain to me exactly how you got the world to revolve around you.....I'm all ears.

and BTW, it has happened to me, a few times, everytime Ive bought a computer for example.

stephenlnoe · Post by **stephenlnoe** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 11:04 pm

Where do you get the idea that this involves you? My rant is with ableton. So I ask you the same question, what makes you think the world revolves around you? If you're OK with your situation then fine. I don't presume to tell you how you should feel.

I'm out.....

anonymouse · Post by **anonymouse** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 11:28 pm

stephenlnoe wrote:Where do you get the idea that this involves you? My rant is with ableton. So I ask you the same question, what makes you think the world revolves around you? If you're OK with your situation then fine. I don't presume to tell you how you should feel.

I'm out.....

StephenInoe, I think people are just a bit surprised at your naivete (going on the attack because you were unlucky) and are rubbing salt in it.

You were perfectly happy to pay for Live 4 and got exactly what you paid for. No rip off there.

Exactly this sort of this has happened to me. And i'm sure it has happened to others. My last experience was with a USD3000 hardware keyboard synth that had been only released several months before, then the manufacturer brings out a radically better synth a few weeks after I purchased it, for a slightly higher price.

A year prior to that, with another hardware firm, the same thing with a rackmount synth for about USD1000. A matter of months later, a much improved model is announced for an extra USD100.

No doubt I'll get stung again in some other way.

I got lucky with upgrading to Cubase SX3 though, only by a matter of days (but they still charged me 1/3 of the upgrade price)

My feeling on all these occasions was making progressively louder

Homer Simpson wrote:Doh!

noises.

People I am sure sympathize that you were so close to the cut off date. But there is no need to go postal about it

stephenlnoe wrote:This is a fucking rip off. That's what it is.

hoffman2k · Post by **hoffman2k** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 11:44 pm

stephenlnoe wrote:Where do you get the idea that this involves you? My rant is with ableton. So I ask you the same question, what makes you think the world revolves around you? If you're OK with your situation then fine. I don't presume to tell you how you should feel.

I'm out.....

Get over it. This shit happens every day. With everything.

For example:
I buy a dual g5 1.8 powermac for 2500€
Two weeks later, the same mac costs 2000€
Boohoo. I'm poor. But i don't mind buying stuff i'll use almost everyday.

What else are you going to spend your money on? weed, beer, bear, drugs, woman, booze, manicure, dvd collection of the sopranos.......?
Ableton deserves your money. They worked hard for it.

It was obvious there was going to be a new version. The song contest for example.
Or other hints we've been receiving since january.
So don't act like you didn't know.
Nobody throws 500$/€ to a piece of software without doing some research. And those who do, wont bitch about an upgrade cost.

kabuki · Post by **kabuki** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 1:09 am

stephenlnoe wrote:What happened to me will happen to you (whoever) one day and you'll feel screwed too.

....

Let's see how many analogies you spout when it's your money.

amazing....

This is why folks are spoting about your poor, poor situation. YOU called them into it. Deal with it. It will be OK. It HAS happened to all of us.

Here's MY example. PAID for promised software (a game). Supposed to be cross-platform. It wasn't until a year after the PC version came out that the Mac version did - with fewer extras a less functionality - and they wanted me to buy the Mac version all over again. What did I do? BOYCOTTED every product they have come out with (and found much better alternative along the way), for the past 4 years.

Lesson: If you don't like what they have done, don't support them. But i will tell you this, they at least are offering the new purchasers a discount and/or a free upgrade. Which I believe is you?! So what's the rub?

I can understand the sting, because everytime I buy ANY product (car, computer, software, hardware, dog, bacon, hat, movie, etc) someone comes out with a better version right after I paid my cash. BOO HOO. I will use what I have untill it breaks, explodes, or pees on the carpet, then I will pony up for another soon-to-be-obsolete product. And I will take it like a man.

The Abs have done nothing wrong (unless coming out with a program that will make your music-making life better is wrong.). Enjoy your software, buy the upgrade (or get the free one - whatever), and learn from the experience - the Abletons come out with a new - more stellar version every 9 months or so...

Peace and enjoy.

PS: And I might also point out the Mr. AdamJay is quite a nice, helpful guy. He is well like and respected for good reason. So just CHILL!!!

AdamJay · Post by **AdamJay** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 1:12 am

http://www.cnvc.org/

The Center For Non-Violent Communication.

might wanna check that out if you continually take out your own frustrations on other people. Some of their techniques have helped my friends and myself alot.

smile!

smutek · Post by **smutek** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 1:31 am

-MIKE- wrote:To those who got all petty and bitchy and responded in such ways as to that makes one suspect I had told you your wife was ugly and your mother had crooked teeth...... well, no hard feelings, you have to live with yourselves.

Mike Mamma so poor. I saw her runnin down the street with one shoe on, I says "hey mike mamma, you lost a shoe..." and she say "nah, i just found this....."

bwa ha ha!!!!!!

(just kidding)

conny · Post by **conny** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 1:37 am

Interesting reading, Adam.
Could have avoided some mash ups when I think about it.
// C