Computer can't handle all i'm throwing at it...

[wotnwhy]

I've recently started using Ableton Live Suite 8. Been a Cubase and Reason user my whole life but wanted to take stuff live so got this and a launchpad.

Unfortunatly my computers quite old, and filled to the brim with years worth of cr@p, so when i start running several things at once in Live, it doesn't like it too much...

To give you an idea of what i'm doing, here's an average track:
2 instruments through audio interface (would like to get an interface which will allow for 6 inputs though).
1 Novation Nocturn keyboard used to play several VST's, and it's pads playing the Live drum machine.
A multitude of samples with a myriad of effects (most being edited live so have to be running).

The launchpad, nocturn and interface are all USB powered. Don't know what, or how much, this drains.
A song arrangement will usually fill 4 areas for the launchpad so.... 16-ish tracks? Each with about 10 variations (be it effects or completely different samples).
About 5 of these tracks will be midi, sub synth, organ, horns, pads and textures. VST usually Massive or Albino.



Anyway, my computer just can't handle that much going on and regularly freezes and sometimes crashes. And i can't have that happening 'Live'...

Now i know nothing about computer specs so i'm hoping here's where you can help me out. Knowing what i want to be doing, what are the minimum specs and numbers i should be looking at? Also, if you want to recommend an actual laptop, then my budget is as low as i can possibly make it. I'm skinter than a skint thing, but i WILL be playing live soon so i'll have to find money somewhere.

Any help greatly recieved

Cheers
Tom

[glenn303]

Freeze tracks, not sure how many inputs your audio card has but turn off any inputs that you are not using in lives preferences. Also crop your audio samples. Put massive in econo mode (I think it's called that) to free up the CPU. Increase buffer size.

[Khazul]

For live use you probaby want a laptop or a mini-format desktop (mac mini, Shuttle PC etc), though laptop preferred.

I personally would say get the best computer you can afford, then figure out what you can actually do safely live with that computer and bounce everything else to audio stems. I understand you want to play as much as possible as a performer, but a safe smooth performance is allways going to be far better than one that glitchy and/or hard to manage.

If you really want to do everything as you are suggesting - then there is only one answer - buy the best and highest spec macbook pro there is, or similar/better performance PC laptop (if you can find one that is reliable for live audio) - either way - expensive, or a high end mini format computer which will probably be faster than a laptop (at least in the windows world - not sure about mac world). Back to the real world, you are budget contrained and that means you have to contrains your set to suit the hardware. Also playing live - allways best to keep it simple and play it as safe as possible especially until you are really confident.

For audio interface for live use - choose reliability above all else - even above sound quality - reliable sound is allways better than pristine but sometimes glitchy sound - personally I prefer NI audio interfaces above anything else at any price for live use becuase of their reliability, but you dont get many in/outs except for the audio 8 which is intended to connect to DJ mixers for timecode etc rather than hardware synths etc. Whatever differences there are between a NI Audio Kontrol 1, or Audio 8 DJ and my RME UFX (studio audio interface) for example are completely lost to a live venue. NI wont yield enough normal input for what you are asking for though (but an Audio 8 DJ would with the right cables assuming unbalanced synth outputs etc), so either re-think what you want to do, or hunt around for something thats very relaible and deoes what you need. Perhaps instead of multi-I/O audio interface, a simpler setup with a minimal audio interface and a simple extternal mixer might be better? At the end of the day - the less you have to worry about, the more relaxed you will be and the better the set will flow.

Still today - the most important live accessory is an ipod+simple mixer - if nothing else, ipod + external mixer can save really save your ass if the computer crashes - just have the ipod cued ready to go at the press of a button, ideally with a pre-mixed set on it, so you can just start it at the time time, and just flip the mixer over if the worst happens and you need it - way better than worrying about if your computer might crash even if you never need it.

[wotnwhy]

Thanks for the responses people!

All samples are already cropped. Freezing tracks is something i'm aware of, but haven't tried doing yet, i think i may leave playing the more simple key bits live, just freeze a few variations and play the solo's live. Running massive in econo mode is a new one to me, i'll look into that for sure, as massive is quite a...well.. massive drain on resources.. Do you know what econo mode actually does? whats being lost?

The music i'm playing is dub based, so the 1 interface input (bass guitar) is essential, everything else is just what i WANT to be doing, and i feared (as you say), that this would need the best that money can buy...

I will be mixing in my music with vinyl DJing so no need for a back up ipod

[The Leveller]

You may have to compromise, simple as that. Render some parts down to audio clips and accept you cannot do all you want to do live.

[Khazul]

Dont just freeze, but actually render to audio as many have suggested and dump the poriginal part completely - get rid of anything from the set you dont absolutely need.

What many of us do is having created a track in Live in studio, render it to stems, then load the stems into a new live set and chop them up for live use, add fx and maybe the odd synth to actually play, but most of all keep it minimal.

[glenn303]

Thanks for the responses people!

All samples are already cropped. Freezing tracks is something i'm aware of, but haven't tried doing yet, i think i may leave playing the more simple key bits live, just freeze a few variations and play the solo's live. Running massive in econo mode is a new one to me, i'll look into that for sure, as massive is quite a...well.. massive drain on resources.. Do you know what econo mode actually does? whats being lost?

The music i'm playing is dub based, so the 1 interface input (bass guitar) is essential, everything else is just what i WANT to be doing, and i feared (as you say), that this would need the best that money can buy...

I will be mixing in my music with vinyl DJing so no need for a back up ipod

Econo mode will lower the sound quality on Massive. I use this mode while writing a song and then when i am ready to render i put it back to high quality.

[wotnwhy]

You may have to compromise, simple as that. Render some parts down to audio clips and accept you cannot do all you want to do live.

Hi, your post is only 4 minutes after mine so you may have missed it. But yes, i've happily reached this conclusion

Dont just freeze, but actually render to audio as many have suggested and dump the poriginal part completely - get rid of anything from the set you dont absolutely need.

What many of us do is having created a track in Live in studio, render it to stems, then load the stems into a new live set and chop them up for live use, add fx and maybe the odd synth to actually play, but most of all keep it minimal.

Thanks for the advice, will try it!

Econo mode will lower the sound quality on Massive. I use this mode while writing a song and then when i am ready to render i put it back to high quality.

Hmmm, was foolishly hoping it may just cut out parts that aren't being used, but the sound quality makes sense. Will deff help when building tunes though. And if i do as Khazu suggests with the synth parts, and use a lighter synth for anything i'm playing live, that should hopefully be enough.



Also, a think a new computer will be needed regardless in the not too distant future. My knowladge of computer specs is zero, ram hz processors cores, it's all gobbletygook to me. I know it's not an easy thing to do, but can someone quote a rough minimum spec for each 'thing' i need to be looking at to help me avoid getting a dog.

Thankyou!

[Khazul]

Choose a budget and maybe, see what you can get and maybe post here to get comments on whether the result is likely to be any good.

In the end - its going to be a compromise between computer price and set complexity. On old laptop from 2-3 years ago will manage a simple set without any problem assuming the laptop in in a good software state and the audio drivers and interface are good.

At other end of the scale, its not hard to construct a set that will bring a maximum spec'd 3000UKP mac book pro 17 to its knees.

Personally I think going with a mac lap top is far safer. If very budget constrained, then consider a second hand / reconditioned mac laptop.

Dont touch second hand PC laptops though as support for drivers tends to be very poor if say XP/vista was the OS at the time it was made - it seems rare in the pc laptop world that stuff is supported for more than a year or so (levovo are better but the likes of HP and several other are really bad). Most PC laptops seem to be about as disposable as tin cans to the extent you cant even give them away.

[Saxer]

bounce to stems for live performance. you can´t handle more than 6 to 8 tracks anyway. have a synth and two audio-tracks plus master with efx to tweak. thats enough to perform.

[wotnwhy]

Thanks again for the responses guys. Nice to see a forum with lots of people taking the time to advice like this, not many around like it!

Had a little play around today, and I think having one or two live tracks (or using a mixer), one synth, and the rest as stems should see me through without too much worry until i can get a new laptop.

For budget regarding the laptop, it's currently £0. I think £400 is realistically the most I could save and justify spending, so not a lot... Any ideas?