If Live 9 doesn't deliver...

[Pyro Z]

In about 4 weeks it will have been half a year since we saw a new Version of Live 8. Either they are having some crazy bug problems with the 8.2.2 betas or they are working on Live 9. My bet is on the latter.

[McQ714]

i hope the poll has served it's purpose..

if only 60% of your clients plan to remain loyal, your company would have a problem!

[Angstrom]

i hope the poll has served it's purpose..
if only 60% of your clients plan to remain loyal, your company would have a problem!

Really?
the poll is for the situation "If Live 9 doesn't deliver", IE: that it's a fuckup.

it seems that 60% will still not abandon it, even if it is no good!

That's some serious loyalty.

Imagine if it is OK! Then what 90% loyalty? 95% ?
troll harder

[McQ714]

at no point does the poll say that the 60% of the loyal users will upgrade to version 9. they may just stick with Live 8.
so 40% of your customers leave. and of the 60% of your current customers that will stick around, i'm guessing only 50% of them will pay to upgrade when Live 9 is released. i'll be one of those because i am and always will be an early adopter.

if you have a company that's only going to get 30% of the amount of income as the year before, you're probably going to have to downsize. and then bugfixes and new versions will come a lot slower. you may lose more customers and probably not gain too many new customers.

now explain to me how 60% is good... that's a D- here in the states. just 1 point away from total failure.

i don't think you've ever had your own business. i'd be pretty worried if my company could only count on making 30% of the income of the year before. that's how recessions start.

now, if you view my post as trolling, i'm sorry... it was not intended to be so. it's just the kind of info a company really should know about it's customers and i highly doubt Ableton would run this kind of poll themselves. that shows fear and uncertainty and that just isn't their style.

[Angstrom]

once again - your poll presupposes a disappointing L9
Any company that still has a 60% satisfaction rating even with a disappointing release, is doing OK.

[savyurrecords]

I know you feel the need to get your point across I can respect that.

However, I feel that forum polls are not very scientific and are hardly reliable.

I would be very concerned if Ableton made its business decisions from this forum. Sure it is very helpful to hear directly from your customers. However, the customers that are satisfied don't make as much noise as the ones that are not. Therefore the 'bad stories' get more press than the 'good stories'.

Human nature.

[friend_kami]

a better poll would be: if live 9 promises alot of features but doesn't implement them as promised,will you keep your liceense to betatest a product claiming to be of RTM material?
:p

[dhilsabeck]

This thread is absolutely fascinating.

[McQ714]

once again - your poll presupposes a disappointing L9
Any company that still has a 60% satisfaction rating even with a disappointing release, is doing OK.

that's not necessarily a satisfaction rating.
it could be a "i'm too broke to invest in another DAW" rating.
or a "i don't want to invest my time in learning another DAW, so i'll just stick with Live even though I'm having problems with it" rating.

i understand where you are coming from but do you think they intended on putting out a product that they knew was going to cause serious problems and crashes for some users? i don't think so. so what makes you think that Live 9 won't be a little buggy for users. and for just the few users that experience crashes, that may be enough to push them over the edge. they've already thought about leaving Live behind, obviously!

perhaps i'm a glass-half-empty kind of guy and think about worst-case scenarios more than i should but that sure as hell doesn't mean that the way i see things is wrong or unreasonable.

i feel sorry for the guy that honestly thinks that 60% satisfaction is a good number to bank on.
i don't think you understand how businesses succeed.

[Angstrom]

i feel sorry for the guy that honestly thinks that 60% satisfaction is a good number to bank on.
i don't think you understand how businesses succeed.

Q: if the next version of Logic is shit, would you buy it?
A: No way

"holy fuck!, disaster D- , Logic is fukt, Apple diez, everyone else is an idiot who doesn't know how business works!!!11!!!"

looks like Apple better learn their lesson.
You got some mad business skillz there, prolly should go into consulting.

[McQ714]

not sure where you were trying to go with that but i'm pretty sure Apple's main source of revenue isn't coming from Logic.
so where's the relevance in your point?

taking this a little personal, aren't you???
i never called you an idiot.

let me ask you a question...
if your annual budget was based on bringing in revenues of at least 90% of your current customers and adding another 5% of that as new customers, then 40% of your current customers, instead of 10% decide to use the services of some other company, and of the remaining 60% continued to use your products but didn't pay you anymore to use them, how much revenue did you actually bring in?

none!!!

and then what would your profits be? in the negatives perhaps??? sounds like a great business plan to me!

do you really not understand why any of this matters? despite Ableton's greatest efforts, people are still have issues with Live, i.e. it's not perfect and probably never will be. how many paying customers are going to put up with the frustrations they may be dealing with in using a product they spent so much money on? and furthermore, with all the negative posts of bugs and crashes, it's a major turn-off for potential customers.

and like i said, i will upgrade and i will upgrade early, but i'm not a majority. probably just a small sliver of their customer base. what are you gonna do?

[Angstrom]

i don't think you've ever had your own business.

i feel sorry for the guy that honestly thinks that 60% satisfaction is a good number to bank on.
i don't think you understand how businesses succeed.

taking this a little personal, aren't you???
i never called you an idiot.

[McQ714]

good job!

now tell me i'm wrong. tell me you've had your own business.

tell me how a business can be successful when each year the revenues dropped 40% from the previous year.

tell me that truthfully is possible and i'll shut the fuck up.

let's start with a modest $1M
next year it'll be $600K
then it'll be $360K
then it's $216K
if you're still in business, year 5 ends with $130K

and let's not forget that after the first couple of years of decreases, revenues will drop more drastically because you have no money for customer service and support staff not to mention, in this case, software developers to fix problems and continue to work on new features.

now i could of course be completely wrong but without seeing Ableton's financial statements, we will never know. i think they've probably taken a substantial hit in the wallet. at least, they started winning the PR war after they released their bug-fix statement.

[hoffman2k]

Yeah, selling The Bridge, MFL, Live upgrades and new sales must really be hurting Ableton.
And that 700% growth can't be good for them either!
And hiring new developers, that must be killing their books

People active on this forum don't even count for 1% of Ableton's current user base.
What is 60% of 1%?

Disclaimer: Numbers used in this post may have been paraphrased, made up or come from some article I read once.

[Tone Deft]