does this really mean that much other than the physical components in the machines? Therre are big companies making very good wintel PCs which are plenty reliable so why would it be any different for apple to still make their own high quality machines just with different components? It'll still be the same people at the helm in charge of quality.
All I know is If I could stick OSX on my PC reliably right now I would make an excuse, leave work early and do it this afternoon.
The quality of the machine build is down to the company manufacturing it and how they do it.
I get the feeling they've exhausted their possibilities with G5 and just couldnt get it cool enough for laptop so they jumped ship
Intel/Apple rumor true
what makes you think it would be obsolete in 2 years? did you read any of the information from the keynote about Xcode 2.1 or Rosetta? not to mention the fact that if they've been compiling OSX for x86 and PPC under our noses for the past 5 years, they'll most definitely be doing it for at least another 5.noisetonepause wrote:You gonna pay two thousand pounds for a computer that is looking to be obsolete after two years?
saying that the mac you buy today would be obsolete in 2 years is like saying that G4's from 2 years ago are obsolete today because they can't benefit from 64-bit specific code. and that would indeed be a pretty ridiculous thing to say, no?
the transition is going to take a while... quite a while. hell, even Ableton supported OS9 up until last week, and thats 5 years after OSX was launched.
this is a (very) gradual phase. If anything i'm looking to take advantage of someone with the same worries you have but who owns an iMac G5 2ghz that wants to sell it while they "think" they still can.
knee jerks give you arthritis.
-
noisetonepause
- Posts: 4938
- Joined: Sat Dec 28, 2002 3:38 pm
- Location: Sticks and stones
Well... Will OSX/Intel binaries run on OSX/PPC under Rosetta? I dunno?
The PPCs obviously won't stop working, but for how long will Apple continue to update OSX/PPC?
Actually, you're probably right. But also, there's the promise of some pretty wild speed bumps/price drops at a pretty set date... I dunno (certainly not at this hour).
-Paws
The PPCs obviously won't stop working, but for how long will Apple continue to update OSX/PPC?
Actually, you're probably right. But also, there's the promise of some pretty wild speed bumps/price drops at a pretty set date... I dunno (certainly not at this hour).
-Paws
that is precisely what Rosetta does.noisetonepause wrote:Well... Will OSX/Intel binaries run on OSX/PPC under Rosetta? I dunno?
but really, Rosetta is just in place for applications that won't be compiled for both Intel and PPC once Macs with Intel processors begin shipping. and developers have the next year to two years to prepare for that, but how will they do it? enter XCode 2.1..
the real star of the show, and what will make the transition smooth is XCode 2.1's ability to create a universal binary that will run on both PPC and Intel platforms. This isn't like Carbonizing was for the OS9/OSX transition. Apple has made this transition nearly transparent for developers, and developers who make cross-platform products will really benefit when translating their code.
this part is pure speculation, but Its almost a good thing that Ableton didn't implement Altivec into their code as it may have to be translated manually to SSE instruction. For them this transition should be less of a pain as they won't be recompiling an application that has been jury rigged with manual optimizations.
-
vince watson
- Posts: 218
- Joined: Sun Oct 31, 2004 8:11 pm
- Location: Amsterdam
- Contact:
you really have to hand it to some of the poeple around on the web tonight, what planet are they on exactly??
jobs is an art in himself, why the hell do you think apple are making such awesome stuff?
jobs may have been using a P4 3.6 on stage to show that tiger has already been ported succesfully, but the reason they have done this deal is because of whats coming down the line.
you dont reall think that this time next year he will still be using a 3.6 do you??
whoever suggested that there will be more virus's now due to the chipset needs to learn more about the computer they are using. its a unix/osX thing and wont make any difference other than more poeple trying to make them and failing.
no osx will be on pc's, only mac's.
someone questioned also the future situation for Live, but for me, the fact that ableton runs smoother on Intels now can only mean less problems for macs down the line...
the figures at the moment about the current g5 line being way faster than the current P4 on Photoshop etc is true. but in 12 months time when we have the intel macs floating around, i doubt very much Steve will have alllowed those P4 3.6 chips to go into a g5. Apple dont do backwards...they only go forwards...
this can only be a good move, ibm seems to have moved its prioritys away from powerpc to the Cell. Intel has had a few failures like most chip companys have in the last few years due to the intense pressure to take the next step up, but as far as i see it, Jobs must have saw something really special in that Intel roadmap, coz you can bet your ass that the 'just in case' situation has also meant that apple have been developing AMD and other Chips on OSX as well.
so...lets look forward to a Pentium 5 Powermac with Dual 5Ghz....may take a year or 2....but all these poeple who are selling there mac's tomorrow after feeling betrayed will end up at the apple store again, you can bet your ass on it.
as an apple freak and an anti pc member, i never thought i would see this coming, i genuinely believed we were heading for a cell based G6.
I cant see this being anything other than something we will look back on in 5 years time and say 'that was one of the best business decisions ever'
sure there will be niggling problems at the beginning, but by the time Osx Leopard is in full swing we wont notice anything other than faster and cooler macs.
i rest my case....
jobs is an art in himself, why the hell do you think apple are making such awesome stuff?
jobs may have been using a P4 3.6 on stage to show that tiger has already been ported succesfully, but the reason they have done this deal is because of whats coming down the line.
you dont reall think that this time next year he will still be using a 3.6 do you??
whoever suggested that there will be more virus's now due to the chipset needs to learn more about the computer they are using. its a unix/osX thing and wont make any difference other than more poeple trying to make them and failing.
no osx will be on pc's, only mac's.
someone questioned also the future situation for Live, but for me, the fact that ableton runs smoother on Intels now can only mean less problems for macs down the line...
the figures at the moment about the current g5 line being way faster than the current P4 on Photoshop etc is true. but in 12 months time when we have the intel macs floating around, i doubt very much Steve will have alllowed those P4 3.6 chips to go into a g5. Apple dont do backwards...they only go forwards...
this can only be a good move, ibm seems to have moved its prioritys away from powerpc to the Cell. Intel has had a few failures like most chip companys have in the last few years due to the intense pressure to take the next step up, but as far as i see it, Jobs must have saw something really special in that Intel roadmap, coz you can bet your ass that the 'just in case' situation has also meant that apple have been developing AMD and other Chips on OSX as well.
so...lets look forward to a Pentium 5 Powermac with Dual 5Ghz....may take a year or 2....but all these poeple who are selling there mac's tomorrow after feeling betrayed will end up at the apple store again, you can bet your ass on it.
as an apple freak and an anti pc member, i never thought i would see this coming, i genuinely believed we were heading for a cell based G6.
I cant see this being anything other than something we will look back on in 5 years time and say 'that was one of the best business decisions ever'
sure there will be niggling problems at the beginning, but by the time Osx Leopard is in full swing we wont notice anything other than faster and cooler macs.
i rest my case....
Macbook Pro (Early2011) 17" Antiglare Hi Res 2.2, 8gb Ram, RME Multiface Expresscard, Ableton 7.18, Ableton 8.2.1, Snow Leopard 10.6.8
I was super skeptical when I heard the rumors, then when they were confirmed yesterday I just couldn't get how it was a smart move. But after watching the Keynote what convinced me was the processor output / watt graph. Laptops are the future for most individuals (every year more and more are sold in proportion to desktops) and G5's were doomed for laptop use.
Also, since the G5 is 64 bit, there's no way the Apple/Intel boxes will revert to 32 bit, especially after Apple encouraged developers to optimize for 64-bit and dual processors. So we're talking dual 64-bit 4Ghz in desktops? Not to mention the possibility of dual-core + hyperthreading. So figure if there's hyperthreading and dual-core, you could have a single CPU that's recognized as 4 processing units.
And then say laptops of 2.5Ghz? Maybe more. This all looks really promising, and maybe a way to really see how fast Intel CPU's are when theyre given the right treatment by a solid OS with apps with solid code.
Ableton better port their shiz, but I trust them to do so. I mean Live already runs faster on P4's than G5's, so however Live is built, that's gotta be a good thing.
Also, since the G5 is 64 bit, there's no way the Apple/Intel boxes will revert to 32 bit, especially after Apple encouraged developers to optimize for 64-bit and dual processors. So we're talking dual 64-bit 4Ghz in desktops? Not to mention the possibility of dual-core + hyperthreading. So figure if there's hyperthreading and dual-core, you could have a single CPU that's recognized as 4 processing units.
And then say laptops of 2.5Ghz? Maybe more. This all looks really promising, and maybe a way to really see how fast Intel CPU's are when theyre given the right treatment by a solid OS with apps with solid code.
Ableton better port their shiz, but I trust them to do so. I mean Live already runs faster on P4's than G5's, so however Live is built, that's gotta be a good thing.
not anymore, that's the point there:No, it doesn't. There's this little thing called OpenFirmware, which Macs use instead of a BIOS. I'm willing to bet that if a montherboard doesn't support OpenFirmware, it won't boot OS X.
everything is here page 47 : http://developer.apple.com/documentatio ... binary.pdfMacintosh computers using Intel microprocessors do not use Open Firmware.
they'll still limit OSX to macs tho from what it says here:krikor wrote:not anymore, that's the point there:No, it doesn't. There's this little thing called OpenFirmware, which Macs use instead of a BIOS. I'm willing to bet that if a montherboard doesn't support OpenFirmware, it won't boot OS X.
everything is here page 47 : http://developer.apple.com/documentatio ... binary.pdfMacintosh computers using Intel microprocessors do not use Open Firmware.
http://news.com.com/Apple+throws+the+sw ... ag=st.next
"After Jobs' presentation, Apple Senior Vice President Phil Schiller addressed the issue of running Windows on Macs, saying there are no plans to sell or support Windows on an Intel-based Mac. "That doesn't preclude someone from running it on a Mac. They probably will," he said. "We won't do anything to preclude that."
However, Schiller said the company does not plan to let people run Mac OS X on other computer makers' hardware. "We will not allow running Mac OS X on anything other than an Apple Mac," he said. "
yeah getting back to what's important, i'm looking forward to this point too. potentially all optimisation efforts now focus on one architecture...this should bode well for all Live usersred_wedge wrote:Still (and to bring this back to the Ableton forum!) I guess now it's not so crucial that Ableton spend time optimising Live for Altivec anymore!
Just make sure we have an amazingly efficient version come 2007...
