ABLETON SHOULD MAKE A STRICLY DJ MODE

[Tarekith]

After a few months with Traktor S4, I couldn't wait to get back to Live for DJing. And I never use Beat Repeats.

Interesting, please, tell more.

A few reasons why I like Live better:

- I didn't like the sound of the S4 EQ's. Not subtle at all, I prefer using my XONE62 for mixing.

- The waveform view was really small, and as I said above, I like that i can plan to an exact measure where I want to drop things.

- The effects are only so so. You don't get a lot of control over the few effects they give you, especially if you want to use more than two at once. You can't pick what parameters of those effects you want to control. I LOVE being able to make my own custom effects racks in Live.

- The sample decks were useless for me, since they don't key lock. As I mentioned, I play downtempo mainly, and I'm constantly adjusting the tempo of my set as I play to go from 80 to 125 BPM's. Unless you sample a track at it's exact tempo, it won't play back in the sample deck at the right speed/pitch.

- Glob al tempo control in traktor S4 is not as easy as in Live either, which is just a single knob for me. While you CAN set S4 to follow a global tempo, there's really no free knob on the S4 to control it with.

- The gridding in Traktor is generally more accurate and slightly faster than Live, but I still had to adjust almost every single grid to get them bang on perfect. So really, it wasn't saving me that much time compared to warping in Live.


Of course something things are great in Traktor too, like the browser and it's one knob previewing, as well as the super fun loop recorder.

[Anubis]

They are working on the Session view, for iPad 2!

huh? please elaborate, or link me up

It's just wishful thinking. Unfortunately, the Abes are either too obtuse to realize the value of such an app, -or- they are too mired in (undeserved) controversy to see the big picture and realize the future role of music in tablet computing.

[synnack]

My first response to this thread was going to be how with very few API hooks in a Max for Live update, Ableton could make it really easy to write some cool DJ appropriate Max for Live interfaces that look much more DJ friendly. Features in the API for this would be a better investment than writing an Ableton Live version with a "DJ Mode" in that the community would write some cool stuff and the same capability could then be leveraged via TouchOSC. So then THAT means custom DJ interfaces on iPad, Android, etc... are trivial.

But then I remembered something. If you are unhappy with Ableton Live as DJ software because of the interface and whatnot then why isn't "The Bridge" the answer? Ableton already spent a ton of time integrating to one of the top software DJ environments.

So if Ableton alone for DJing isn't ideal, why the hell is Serato+The Bridge now what you need?

[synnack]

Also curious what this Ableton Live integration will be: http://www.novationmusic.com/us/product ... +Software/

Integration of that controller with Live could solve a ton of usability options with Live and DJing if they do it right.

[Tone Deft]

So if Ableton alone for DJing isn't ideal, why the hell is Serato+The Bridge now what you need?

this whole notion which has dominated the thread since henke posted overlooks the fact that henke is an employee of Ableton, he's not the entire staff. it seems that he's free to state his opinions on Live as he sees it which can change over time. he's the same guy that once stated "a vocoder? that's retarded, nobody needs a vocoder! <chuckle>" and now we have a vocoder.

(apologies to henke if this makes him feel over analyzed.)

[LeifonMars]

After a few months with Traktor S4, I couldn't wait to get back to Live for DJing. And I never use Beat Repeats.

Interesting, please, tell more.

A few reasons why I like Live better:

- I didn't like the sound of the S4 EQ's. Not subtle at all, I prefer using my XONE62 for mixing.

- The waveform view was really small, and as I said above, I like that i can plan to an exact measure where I want to drop things.

- The effects are only so so. You don't get a lot of control over the few effects they give you, especially if you want to use more than two at once. You can't pick what parameters of those effects you want to control. I LOVE being able to make my own custom effects racks in Live.

- The sample decks were useless for me, since they don't key lock. As I mentioned, I play downtempo mainly, and I'm constantly adjusting the tempo of my set as I play to go from 80 to 125 BPM's. Unless you sample a track at it's exact tempo, it won't play back in the sample deck at the right speed/pitch.

- Glob al tempo control in traktor S4 is not as easy as in Live either, which is just a single knob for me. While you CAN set S4 to follow a global tempo, there's really no free knob on the S4 to control it with.

- The gridding in Traktor is generally more accurate and slightly faster than Live, but I still had to adjust almost every single grid to get them bang on perfect. So really, it wasn't saving me that much time compared to warping in Live.


Of course something things are great in Traktor too, like the browser and it's one knob previewing, as well as the super fun loop recorder.

Thanks for taking time for this. I was thinking about to get Traktor S4 for DJing to make it easier on me, but I think I will stick to Live and get me Juno 106 instead of Traktor (not for djing). Oooh, Junooo.

[ze2be]

To be able to load sets like a DJ loads a deck, would fill a huge gap for live performance in general. Being able to scrub/nudge individual tracks or clips would be great for everybody. And adding cue points to clips shold be easy to code, and would greatly improve follow actions. Being able to see audio visulizers verticaly on the session mixer would be great for studio mixing! And to be able to see the cue points on multiple tracks aswell, would be really helpfull for any live loop performer.

These 4 things would improve Live for everyone, imho.

[3phase]

Integration of that controller with Live could solve a ton of usability options with Live and DJing if they do it right.

that would be the first time..they will do it half right with some major pretty obvious but workaroundable drawbacks to leave space for later enhancements..

[3phase]

Being able to see audio visulizers verticaly on the session mixer would be great for studio mixing! And to be able to see the cue points on multiple tracks aswell, would be really helpfull for any live loop performer.

so halftransparent wavforms runinng vertical over each track? an the spread sheet calculation just in the background ?
with shiny 3 -D optics.. ok, woud at least look cool.. or just over the fader section as some kind of 3 D metering with pre and post view..could be a real time scroll area too

But i guess we would need way faster computers than we have now to enjoy that on stage.. or a more efficiant programming of live in general to allow such gimmicks..

[andyb19844]

dis reguard this

[Jarvisimon]

Also curious what this Ableton Live integration will be: http://www.novationmusic.com/us/product ... +Software/

Integration of that controller with Live could solve a ton of usability options with Live and DJing if they do it right.

That looks like a great controller, though for £400, you'd expect it to have a CPU for extra oomph, also the output quality isn't as brilliant as all that....44.1/48khz isn't good enough for this day and age.

[docprosper]

+1

The only reason you need to see multiple waveforms when djing is when you are trying to beatmatch visually (which you shouldn't really need if you actually know what you are doing), and since you don't need to beatmatch with live, this is completely unnecessary. I would recommend actually listening to your tracks to figure out where the breakdowns and such are, rather than relying on visual information. 3phase is on point as usual.

No, 3phase is wrong as usual. I DJ'd with vinyl for ~10 years, and often visually checked the tracks playing to see how much time was left, where the breaks were, etc. You can see change ups in the audio on the vinyl; anyone who's messed around with vinyl knows this. Now I've converted to Live for DJing and tinkering in production. I just had a live set with Ableton last weekend (with Octop4d!) and was often checking back and forth between tracks to visually see the same cues I would with vinyl... this would be much better if multiple visuals were available at once. When you're deep in a set you don't necessarily want to rely on memory alone to tell you what the tracks are going to do next.

I've already worked up a M4L window with multiple track EQ, FX routing, etc. built in; all this can be done with M4L. Multiple waveforms IMO are the missing piece.

-Hamish

[Tone Deft]

44.1/48khz isn't good enough for this day and age.

seriously??

[LeifonMars]

44.1/48khz isn't good enough for this day and age.

You silly.

[rsaulo]

why is it so important to see the waveforms? you cant see them on vinyl either and dj´s manged to mix with that just fine

+1

The only reason you need to see multiple waveforms when djing is when you are trying to beatmatch visually (which you shouldn't really need if you actually know what you are doing), and since you don't need to beatmatch with live, this is completely unnecessary. I would recommend actually listening to your tracks to figure out where the breakdowns and such are, rather than relying on visual information. 3phase is on point as usual.

I dont want waveforms views to beatmatch, it's not necessary anymore, but I like to be able to SEE where I am in the song, I can see this on vinyl, It's very usefull to see when a break will come in, or the breakdow will start to drop some effecs, etc

IMHO