Doubling guitars and avoid phase problems

[Sepp Ultura]

Hi everybody. I've got a tiny little question.

I've recorded a band with one guitarist and I've doubled the clean guitars. Then I've panned them hard left and hard right in order to get a nice stereo image. In addition I've put the reverb for the left guitar slightly to the right side and the opposite for the right guitar.

Are there any tricks I can use in order not to get phasing problems when the track is played back on a mono player? No matter what you do with EQ and stuff, you'll always end up with very similar signals that can cause phasing. Or shall I leave that for the mastering engineer to sort out?

Cheers

[razorblade]

stick a 100% wet ten millisecond delay on one, or nudge the track.

[Sepp Ultura]

Thanks for the tip. But doesn't that also cause phasing? Just a thought. Maybe I'm misinformed.

[Sepp Ultura]

Hang on, I haven't just doubled them. We've recorded them twice.

[4.33]

phasing is not a mastering problem - it's a mixing one
if you've made 2 recordings - they are not likely to be phasing out
however, if they do you can try eqing them differently, or just offset the time, as someone just mentioned

[simonlb]

Have you actually tested it in mono to hear how it sounds?

[Sepp Ultura]

Yes, it just seems to fall apart. Of course this is due to the stereo image disappearing, but I also have the feeling that some presence is lost. I think this is due to phasing and that's why I posted this thread. I might just as well try another mic combination for one of the guitars (I've used 3 mics to record them). I'll try an other combination in setting the respective volumes.

Thanks for all the suggestions so far!

[anybody human]

This isn't so much a phasing solution, but I find mid-side eq'ing them differently helps. Also if you're doubling, the playing has to be tight to the first one, this is a workmanlike task, as much as variation in picking or timing can sound cool, it's not the original purpose of doubling. If you mean copying a part, just don't. Play it twice. Replacing something is only a last resort, better to do the real thing.

In general I just don't double, it's a rock thing that I just don't go in for anymore. Personal preference. I think it sounds cooler to use stereo delay (or the old trick of panning the delay opposite the guitar) to create a stereo image if needed or more often just subtle depth.

[techforums123]

Thanks for the posting, Keep 0 delay and then check

[Saxer]

there should be no phasing problems between two different recordings. you get phasing prolems when copying an audio track in your daw and this is no musical doubling. did the guitarist play his part really twice? if so the human inaccuracy and the physic of an acoustic instrument generates slightly different signals. there might be some temp phasing between the recordings but they are not static and makes this wide feel.

[Jesus Christ]

mid-side

this

[Cezband]

Try pulling them in a tad from the hard sides, I find when I hard pan left and right it feels like there's a hole in the middle. I usually set my left guitar at around 30L and right guitar around 30R. Then I bus them, and apply a bit of mid-side work, or sometimes just use EQ8 to goof with the left and right channels. This way the middle still feels like there's a bit of meat, but you still get the width in stereo.

Works fine with two seperate recordings, although not so good with one recording doubled.

[anybody human]

A friend once advised me to avoid hard panning things, something like 46L/48R, since he also said to avoid mirroring L & R, as in 30L/30R. Instead, 30L/29R is less static. Seems to have been good advice but as always, use your ears. As was mentioned above, definitely have the guitar player play the part twice if possible, for a number of reasons. Simply copying a part and panning them is only a last resort thing IMO.

[Cezband]

he also said to avoid mirroring L & R, as in 30L/30R. Instead, 30L/29R is less static.

Can you elaborate on the logic behind this a little? I don't really understand how that should make a difference, assuming you've got two seperate recordings of the same part, aside from putting the overall sound ever-so-slightly off-centre?

I like trying to understand more about width

[Sepp Ultura]

Thanks for all your suggestions. Yes, I had the guitarist play the parts twice. Sometimes there is a really cool difference between the two..accents played differently but both tight as hell.

I'll definitely try the panning solution. I'll try not to pan them that hard. We'll see how that sounds.

Thanks everybody!